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On 1/2/2012 11:23 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
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- williambanzai7<br>
<br>
On 1/2/2012 2:41 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:63E69AF3-9E7E-4966-B68F-7D9A6670E8B9@shout.net"
type="cite">As this list indicates, motives for voting against the
NDAA (perhaps best called the Indefinite Detention Bill, to indicate
its unconstitutionality) were various. Some senators wanted to put the
incarceration of (suspected) terrorists into the hands of the military
precisely to take it out of the hands of the administration (an
interesting distinction in itself). <br>
<br>
That - and nothing else - is what Obama objected to & led him to
make his veto threats. His signing statement makes that clear. <br>
<br>
Some of these senators voted no because the bill didn't clearly delimit
the administration & empower the military. <br>
<br>
Actually, that might have been a good idea: to require military custody
is to admit that the suspected terrorists must be regarded as prisoners
of war, and thus treated in accord with the Geneva Conventions. <br>
<br>
The Bush administration invented the category of "unlawful combatant"
to avoid that, and of course the dodge was continued by the Obama
administration. <br>
<br>
Obama is intending to violate both the Bill of Rights and the laws of
war, as Bush did. No wonder he doesn't want to prosecute Bush & co.
for war crimes: he's committing all of them himself. <br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 1, 2012, at 11:39 AM, David Johnson wrote: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The 13 senators who voted against the bill
were Dick Durbin (D-Ill.),Ben Cardin (D-Md.),Al Franken (D-Minn.),Tom
Harkin (D-Iowa),Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.),Ron Wyden (D-Ore.),Bernie Sanders
(I-Vt.), Jim Risch (R-Idaho),Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Mike Lee (R-Utah),Jim
DeMint (R-S.C.), Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) and Tom Coburn (R-Okla.). <br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: C. G. ESTABROOK <br>
To: sf-core <br>
Cc: Peace-discuss List <br>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:42 PM <br>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] High crime <br>
<br>
"Obama Crowned Himself on New Year's Eve" <br>
By davidswanson - Posted on 01 January 2012 <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://davidswanson.org/node/3508">http://davidswanson.org/node/3508</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Dec 31, 2011, at 9:39 PM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Obama has signed the clearly
unconstitutional Military Detention Bill (NDAA) - quietly, on New
Year's Eve, while on vacation in Hawaii. He and the congressional
representatives who voted for it have violated their oath to uphold the
Constitution. It's not too much to suggest that this bill resembles the
Enabling Act of 23 March 1933. <br>
<br>
"Will the bill hurt Obama? Probably not too much, if at all. Liberals
are never very energetic in protecting constitutional rights. That’s
more the province of libertarians and other wackos like Ron Paul
actually prepared to draw lines in the sand in matters of principle"
[Alex Cockburn]. <br>
<br>
"Think, if you can, of a single instance in which a plainly written
provision of the Constitution has ever been denied. If by the mere
force of numbers, a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly
written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view,
justify revolution - certainly would, if such right were a vital one"
[Abraham Lincoln]. <br>
<br>
All the more so if a minority - 1% - should through its agents deprive
the majority of a "clearly written constitutional right": the bill
Obama signed today is a direct assault on the First, Fourth, Fifth,
Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Amendments. <br>
<br>
--CGE <br>
<br>
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