I agree with everything David Johnson says here. I'd also like to add a few points.<br><br>First, I no longer believe the Democrats are necessarily the lesser evil. In the area of education, Obama is worse in that they have a terrible agenda that rivals the Republicans and are more likely able to see it through. (Still, the bureaucrats in my union, the NEA, tailor their politics to benefit the electoral success of their "friends".) This is the case in so many areas. Worse, when the Democrats do something crappy, because it is a Democrat who did it, many liberals (not all, of course) don't rise in opposition. I'm starting to think the Democratic Party is the greater evil for these reasons.<br>
<br>Second, from my experience working with liberal friends in groups through the years, I've seen firsthand how their working for the electoral success of Democrats has stifled movements and seriously limited the political program of movements to fit the Democratic Party conservative agenda. Much energy is sucked out of movement politics due to electoralism, and worse, political positions often get determined by whether or not they might negatively affect Democratic politicians. (Don't oppose the war now! It might hurt Obama. Don't oppose current threats against Iran! After all, it might hurt Obama.) <br>
<br>If we seriously believe that it is movements that result in real change, the Democratic Party is undoubtedly the single most hindrance to change. It's the albatross around our necks. We won't get the party independent of business when we vote for the Democrats year after year, justifying the act as meaningful, suffering defeat after defeat.<br>
<br>I, too, disagree at any notion that it was the Naderites responsible for Bush or any conservative agenda. I voted for Ron Daniels in '92, Nader in '96, ' 00' and '04 and don't feel one bit responsible for Bush or any other politician. In my view, it is the strategy of working within the Democratic Party for change that has failed, as we see the political landscape continue to gravitate to the right, Democratic Party and all. I also think it is highly authoritarian for some my liberal friends (not all) to assume that the Democratic Party has my vote in this supposed democracy, and for them to assume as well that any given vote of mine is a temporary deviation. I have never voted for a Democrat in a national race, and my opposition was only strengthened after groups like Progressive Democrats for America, in collusion with the Democratic Party, tried to take away my vote for president in 2004 by kicking Nader off the ballot in some states. This proved, beyond all doubt, that there's very little that is democratic about the Democratic Party.<br>
<br>Maybe it's easy for me to write how I feel here, even if it's a little too forthcoming, because I'm from BloNo and don't know that many people in Chambana. But I say all the above in the spirit of collaboration and solidarity, since I don't believe that partisan issues should impede movement coalitions.<br>
<br>In solidarity, Corey<br>BloNo<br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:45 PM, David Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div class="im">
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">" Re splinter
groups: the Nadarites put Bush in the White House in 2000 "</font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
</div><div><font face="Arial" size="4">Excuse me Jenifer,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">But people who voted for Nader in 2000 did NOT put
Bush in the WhiteHouse.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Do your homework and check out ; Greg Palast's
excellent reporting on the disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of
minority voters at the polls via Choicepoint Inc. among other " improper " ie.
illegal activities in Florida via Jeb Bush's Attorney General Katherine
Harris.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Not to mention the U.S. Supreme Courts refusing to
allow a second vote in Florida and APPOINTING George Bush to the
Presidency.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Last but not least, in any other democractic
country in the world, the cheated candidate and party in a stolen
election would have been leading massive protests in the streets and
shuting down the country with general strikes until a another recount or
election was held.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">But not Al Gore and the DNC. Gore rolled over when
his corporate masters told him to and conceded without a whimper. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">And then, the DNC propoganda machine went into
effect and with the usual ruling class technique of diversion stated : " don't
blame the corrupt corporate system that stole an election, it was Nader's
fault " !</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">And people like you swallowed it hook, line, and
sinker !</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Besides, Al Gore would have done the same policies
as George Bush did ( invasion of Iraq, Afganistan, etc. etc. etc. ) just as
Obama is carry forth the very same policies as George Bush and even expanding
them.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">The same 1% ruling class control both corporate
parties ( the repubs and the dems ).</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">The only hope for electoral change in this country
IS A THIRD PARTY that is grassroots driven and takes NO corporate
money.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">OR, a take over of the democratic party, and I
don't see that happening.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Where were the progressive democrats in running a
primary challenge to Obama ?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">NOBODY came forward like Cornell West
BEGGED for, if for no other reason than to have a forum to speak out about what
the majority of people in this country want and to put negotiation
pressure on Obama, ESPECIALLY with all of the class inequality and
anti-war issues the Occupy Movement was getting, even in the corporate
media.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">A lost oppurtunity if I ever saw one
!</font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">The republican debates are nothing but a
circus sideshow to scare people like you into voting AGAIN for Obama, who
broke EVERY campaign promise he made and has expanded the wars, corporate
power, the dismantling of civil liberties and
privacy, inequality, etc.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">I am PROUD that I voted for Nader in 2000 and
Cynthia McKinney in 2008.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">My vote is too precious to EVER vote for someone
who is going to screw me over like the war criminal, corporate whore and
pathological liar</font> <font face="Arial" size="4">Barack Obama.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">He is no better than the republicans, just a
smoother liar, in fact they are ALL ( Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, et al )
beholden to the same corporate masters and will do their bidding accordingly,
despite their campaign rhetoric to targeted constituencies.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Until people like you WAKE-UP and realize that
things will NEVER get better voting for corporate democrats or ANY candidates
that take corporate money, than NOTHING is going to change for the better in
this country, and the downward spiral will continue !</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">btw. I have NO Ivory Tower and never had. I just
learned from experience, starting with Bill Clinton, that I was getting screwed.
I see their scam and I refuse to cooperate.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">The least one can do until the
revolution.</font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Respectfully</font></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">David Johnson</font></div></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<div><font face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jencart13@yahoo.com" href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank">Jenifer
Cartwright</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="dlj725@hughes.net" href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank">David Johnson</a> ; <a title="brussel@illinois.edu" href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" target="_blank">Morton
KBrussel</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">Peace-discuss List</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:00
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] were it not
for the rack monster</div>
<div><br></div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top"> I've listened to every Republican
debate so far (check YouTube for full debate for each date if you've
avoided them so far) b/c it's the ONLY thing that makes me willing to
vote for Obama, and maybe (hopefully) it'd be ditto for you.
Listen to the ones on foreign issues, OMG!!! Yes, it's great that Paul's
views on those get a forum (hopefully Obama et al are paying attention
to who's paying attention to Paul: the very voters who helped him win in
2008) -- but Romney or Gingrich will be the nominee (w/ the truly insane
and terrifying Santorum as veep).
<div> Re splinter groups: the Nadarites put Bush in
the White House in 2000, and the Teabaggers further loused things up for
everyone in 2010... So those unwilling to acknowledge- and vote for the
significantly lesser of two terrible evils can do it again in 2012 (it's
collateral damage I'm not willing to risk from the safety of my own
ivory tower).</div>
<div> --Jenifer <br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 1/30/12, Brussel,
Morton K <i><<a href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" target="_blank">brussel@illinois.edu</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px"><br>From:
Brussel, Morton K <<a href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" target="_blank">brussel@illinois.edu</a>><br>Subject: Re:
[Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster<br>To: "David
Johnson" <<a href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank">dlj725@hughes.net</a>><br>Cc: "Peace-discuss List"
<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>Date: Monday, January 30,
2012, 11:05 PM<br><br>
<div>
<div>No disagreement from me on this, but I am at skeptical that your
admonitions can succeed under present conditions. Yet, I do favor such
actions.
<div>You may be interested in what I wrote in response to Paul
Street's article on what to do for the coming elections:
<div><br></div>
<div> <a href="http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-the-quadrennial-extravaganza-by-paul-street" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-the-quadrennial-extravaganza-by-paul-street</a>.
<div><br></div>
<div>I wrote </div>
<div><br></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Verdana,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><i>It takes time and special
conditions to solve the problems we now face—injustice, inequality,
and the attack on the globe's resources. In fact, there may well
be no satisfactory solution at hand. None of the electoral
alternatives discussed here seem desirable. I for one could
never in good conscience vote for the murderous militaristic corporate
driven Obama administration. And I agree that a vote for a weak third
party (as per Chomsky's strategy) in the current state of our rigged
electoral system would be futile. I believe that conditions will have
to get much more dire before any mass popular awakening can
occur. How remote this is I don't know. Something cataclysmic might
trigger it. What one wants of course is to convince others that
they are truly suffering due to the present system, in the hope that
an ever greater enlightened majority can upset that system with
something far better. <br style="FONT:13px Verdana,sans-serif"><br style="FONT:13px Verdana,sans-serif">Is the OWS movement a step in
the right direction? Yes, but it will have to stay the course and
become much more organized and massive to "change the course of human
events". The forces against it are formidable. How it will affect the
coming elections is uncertain. </i></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Verdana,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Verdana,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">--Mort</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Verdana,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br style="FONT:13px Verdana,sans-serif"></span>
<div>
<div>On Jan 30, 2012, at 10:35 PM, David Johnson wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium Helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div><font face="Arial"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> "A good list for a fair society, but
the question remains: How do we get there (or even partially there)
from here? What is to be done? "</font></font><font face="Arial"></font></div><font face="Arial">
<div>--mkb</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">Agitate, Educate, Organize, Occupy,
Resist</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">David J.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div></font>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(228,228,228);FONT:10pt arial"><b>From:</b><span> </span><a title="brussel@illinois.edu" href="http://mc/compose?to=brussel@illinois.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brussel,
Morton K</a></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b><span> </span><a title="ewj@pigs.ag" href="http://mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">E. Wayne
Johnson</a></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b><span> </span><a title="peace-discuss@anti-war.net" href="http://mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Peace-discuss</a></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Monday,
January 30, 2012 10:08 PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[Peace-discuss] were it not for the rack monster</div>
<div><br></div> A good list for a fair society, but the
question remains: How do we get there (or even partially there)
from here? What is to be done?
<div>--mkb</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 30, 2012, at 7:20 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><span>"I'd start a r[3vol]ution...if I
could get up in the morning" - Aimee Allen<br><br>*<br>I found
this piece in Common Dreams this morning and find several good
points here,<br>and it might be an interesting discussion
piece.<br><br><br>Published on Monday, January 23, 2012 by<span> </span><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Common Dreams</a></span>
<div>
<h2>Ten Steps for Radical Revolution in
the US</h2></div>
<div>by<span> </span><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/bill-quigley" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bill Quigley</a></div></div>
<p><i>“I am convinced that if we
are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a
nation must undergo a radical revolution of values.”<span> </span></i><b>--Dr.
Martin Luther King, Jr. 1967</b></p>
<p><b>One.</b><span> </span>Human
rights must be taken absolutely seriously. Every single person
is entitled to dignity and human rights. No application needed.
No exclusions at all. This is our highest priority.<span style="WIDTH:325px"><span></span></span></p>
<p><b>Two.</b><span> </span>We must
radically reinvent contemporary democracy. Current systems are
deeply corrupt and not responsive to the needs of people.
Representatives chosen by money and influence govern by money
and influence. This is unacceptable. Direct democracy by the
people is now technologically possible and should be the rule.
Communities must be protected whenever they advocate for
self-determination, self-development and human rights. Dissent
is essential to democracy; we pledge to help it flourish.</p>
<p><b>Three.</b><span> </span>Corporations
are not people and are not entitled to human rights. Amend the
US Constitution so it is clear corporations do not have
constitutional or human rights. We the people must cut them down
to size and so democracy can regulate their size, scope and
actions.</p>
<p><b>Four.</b><span> </span>Leave the
rest of the world alone. Cut US military spending by 75 percent
and bring all troops outside the US home now. Defense of the US
is a human right. Global offense and global police force by US
military are not. Eliminate all nuclear and chemical and
biological weapons. Stop allowing scare tactics to build up the
national security forces at home. Stop the myth that the US is
somehow special or exceptional and is entitled to act
differently than all other nations. The US must re-join the
global family of nations as a respectful partner. USA is one of
many nations in the world. We must start acting like it.</p>
<p><b>Five.</b><span> </span>Property
rights, privilege, and money-making are not as important as
human rights. When current property and privilege arrangements
are not just they must yield to the demands of human rights.
Money-making can only be allowed when human rights are
respected. Exploitation is unacceptable. There are national and
global poverty lines. We must establish national and global
excess lines so that people and businesses with extra houses,
cars, luxuries, and incomes share much more to help everyone
else be able to exercise their basic human rights to shelter,
food, education and healthcare. If that disrupts current
property, privilege and money-making, so be it.</p>
<p><b>Six.</b><span> </span>Defend our
earth. Stop pollution, stop pipelines, stop new interstates, and
stop destroying the land, sea, and air by extracting resources
from them. Rebuild what we have destroyed. If corporations will
not stop voluntarily, people must stop them. The very existence
of life is at stake.</p>
<p><span>We respect the human
rights and human dignity of others and work for a world where
love and wisdom and solidarity and respect prevail.</span></p>
<p><b>Seven.</b><span> </span>Dramatically
expand public spaces and reverse the privatization of public
services. Quality public education, health and safety for all
must be provided by transparent accountable public systems.
Starving the state is a recipe for destroying social and
economic human rights for everyone but the rich.</p>
<p><b>Eight.</b><span> </span>Pull the
criminal legal prison system up and out by its roots and start
over. Cease the criminalization of drugs, immigrants, poor
people and people of color. We are all entitled to be safe but
the current system makes us less so and ruins millions of lives.
Start over.</p>
<p><b>Nine.</b><span> </span>The US was
created based on two original crimes that must be confessed and
made right. Reparations are owed to Native Americans because
their land was stolen and they were uprooted and slaughtered.
Reparations are owed to African Americans because they were
kidnapped, enslaved and abused. The US has profited widely from
these injustices and must make amends.</p>
<p><b>Ten.</b><span> </span>Everyone
who wants to work should have the right to work and earn a
living wage. Any workers who want to organize and advocate for
change in solidarity with others must be absolutely protected
from recriminations from their employer and from their
government.</p>
<p>Finally, if those in government and those in power do not
help the people do what is right, people seeking change must
together exercise our human rights and bring about these changes
directly. Dr. King and millions of others lived and worked for a
radical revolution of values. We will as well. We respect the
human rights and human dignity of others and work for a world
where love and wisdom and solidarity and respect prevail. We
expect those for whom the current unjust system works just fine
will object and oppose and accuse people seeking dramatic change
of being divisive and worse. That is to be expected because that
is what happens to all groups which work for serious social
change. Despite that, people will continue to go forward with
determination and purpose to bring about a radical revolution of
values in the
USA.</p></div>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss
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