<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
A variation on "if ya can't lick 'em, join 'em" seems<br>
to be "if they oppose you, co-opt and pervert them".<br>
<br>
It's something like the deflect and redirect tactic used in Judo<br>
<i>"In short, resisting a more powerful opponent will result in your
defeat,
<br>
whilst adjusting to and evading your opponent's attack will cause him
to lose his balance, <br>
his power will be reduced, and you will defeat him. This can apply
whatever the relative values of power, <br>
thus making it possible for weaker opponents to beat significantly
stronger ones."</i><br>
<br>
This tactic worked well for the anti-war movement, the tea party, and
now occupy.<br>
<br>
The people in masse cannot be allowed to realize that there is a single
enemy,<br>
and that one's fellows who belong to some seemingly competing ideology
actually<br>
agree with you on many things.<br>
<br>
It seems likely that the Republicans will nominate Romney, although the
RNC in Florida <br>
may be somewhat interesting.<br>
<br>
That will definitely ensure a second term for Obama. Romney is broadly
despised<br>
by many traditional Republican voters. They will stay home rather than
vote for any Obamney.<br>
<br>
Hard-core Ron Paulers will never vote for any Obamney even if Ron Paul
gets GOP platform<br>
concessions from the RNC. Platforms are generally meaningless and
ignored after elections.<br>
<br>
The Obamites are undeterred. Their dedication to the great man is
unfailing,<br>
and they have a patch for each and every fault, whether it be shilling
for the 1%, <br>
warmongering, imperializing, baby-killing, San Andreas or New Madrid.<br>
<br>
That's pronounced Mad Rid, not muh-DRID.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/5/2012 6:37 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:0643672D-4602-425A-AEEA-5B1EECE3419A@shout.net"
type="cite">Mike--
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Glad to hear you're not voting for Obama - not that it matters
much, here in Illinois: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>there really will have been a sea-change if Obama loses the
electoral votes of our fair state!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In those unlikely circumstances, we all should do a serious
re-think; meanwhile, don't vote for imperialist murder. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But the fact is that Obama and his Democratic epigoni have done
more to destroy the anti-war movement - and now Occupy - than any
political tendency in the last 50 years.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(You know - but few others do, because of the media monopoly -
that it's the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's invasion of South Vietnam -
and incidentally the 42nd of the government's murder of college
students in Ohio. Those anniversaries are not recalled in part because
of Obama's conscious attempt "to put them behind us," as he says in The
Audacity of Hope.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Obama's political career is based on the co-option of the
antiwar movement, then and now. And he hasn't blundered into it: he's
proud enough of his perspicacity to set it out in that book.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What we see now is a conscious attempt on the part of this agent
of the 1% to turn his successful tactic to the evisceration of the
Occupy movement, and I wouldn't bet against his succeeding. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As to what you or I or the SF list is doing, my spiritual guide
is the late Humphrey Bogart, who observed appositely in Casablanca
(1942),</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"...it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three
little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world ...
Here's looking at you, kid."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--CGE</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On May 4, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Mike Lehman wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: static; z-index: auto;">
<span style="display: none;"> </span><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position: relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Carl,<br>
I didn't breathe a word about voting for Obama. Maybe that's your first
<br>
assumption about people, but I thankfully never voted for him, Clinton <br>
or any Democrat for president as far as I can recall.<br>
<br>
Yes, I have worked with Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Greens, <br>
anarchists and, yes, even socialists to get good things done.<br>
<br>
I generally found it counterproductive to engage in a stream of us vs <br>
them rhetoric in getting anything done.<br>
<br>
Yes, I agree institutions are problematic and possibly compromising to <br>
work with unless one keeps ones wits about them.<br>
<br>
And I certainly favor the building of alternative institutions, having <br>
put the greatest part of the efforts of my life into doing just that, <br>
mostly without having to engage too fine a filter about who I was <br>
willing to work with.<br>
<br>
I guess I'm just weary of listening to the barrage of commentary that <br>
seems to presume the SF list is an arm of Obama 2012. That's sad <br>
commentary, if it were true, but I think actually reflects your <br>
assumptions about others far more than it does those I know. Not sure <br>
what David thinks, but sometimes I know we'd all just like to kick <br>
someone's car door and go home. Makes one feel better, but doesn't <br>
change much.<br>
<br>
Not that I'm trying to make you "them" vs our "us" or anything. Not at <br>
all, exactly the opposite. But I think it's a tune I've personally
found <br>
to be grating, oblivious, and self-congratulatory more than it is <br>
informative or liable to start a fruitful discussion. You're welcome to
<br>
still be you and care so deeply about the things you do, but just don't
<br>
assume by the silence that you're somehow doing more to help things
than <br>
you otherwise might. This is especially so among those who share most
of <br>
your concerns if you were to take a more circumspect line, because it <br>
appears what you do actually acts to subvert a productive conversation <br>
on these matters by your tone, undermining your often eloquent evidence
<br>
and argument.<br>
<br>
Are we all obligated to achieve perfection before we do anything
productive?<br>
<br>
Is the Good really the enemy of the Perfect?<br>
<br>
I'd like to hope that change is possible, but realize those, too, have <br>
become widely discredited principles in recent decades.<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
On 5/4/2012 11:54 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br>
> I think the Obama people are counting on this to get re-elected,
just <br>
> as they counted on co-opting (and betraying) the anti-war movement
to <br>
> get elected in 2008.<br>
><br>
> In order not to acquiesce in the administration's murder and
looting - <br>
> its foreign wars and Wall St. bailouts - this president will have
to <br>
> be driven from office as Johnson and Nixon were.<br>
><br>
> His successor will take a lesson, or then be driven from office in
<br>
> turn (again like, Johnson and Nixon).<br>
><br>
> We're not looking for an autocratic revolution, but a popular one,
<br>
> which will move toward freedom and democracy. That can take place
only <br>
> if a mass of the population is implementing it, carrying it out
and <br>
> solving problems. They're not going to undertake that commitment, <br>
> understandably, unless they have discovered for themselves that
there <br>
> are limits to reform.<br>
><br>
> A sensible revolutionary will try to push reform to the limits,
for <br>
> two good reasons. First, because the reforms can be valuable in <br>
> themselves. People should have an eight-hour day rather than a <br>
> twelve-hour day. And in general, we should want to act in accord
with <br>
> decent ethical values.<br>
><br>
> Secondly, on strategic grounds, you have to show that there are
limits <br>
> to reform. Perhaps sometimes the system will accommodate to needed
<br>
> reforms. If so, well and good. But if it won't, then new questions
<br>
> arise. Perhaps that is a moment when resistance is necessary,
steps to <br>
> overcome the barriers to justified changes. Perhaps the time has
come <br>
> to resort to coercive measures in defense of rights and justice, a
<br>
> form of self-defense. Unless the general population recognizes
such <br>
> measures to be a form of self-defense, they're not going to take
part <br>
> in them, at least they shouldn't.<br>
><br>
> If you get to a point where the existing institutions will not
bend to <br>
> the popular will, you have to eliminate the institutions, not form
<br>
> 'sophisticated ... alliances' with them.<br>
><br>
> On May 4, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Mike Lehman wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I certainly do share y'alls dissatisfaction with venerable
institutions<br>
>> selling out those they represent...<br>
>><br>
>> On the other hand, if we're trying to build a majority to
overturn the<br>
>> present system, I'd strongly suggest a more sophisticated
approach to<br>
>> building alliances. Those revolutions that focus on the need
to purge<br>
>> our way to utopia in themselves often turn out to be not much
of a<br>
>> revolution at all.<br>
>><br>
>> Just saying.<br>
>> Mike Lehman<br>
>><br>
>> On 5/3/2012 5:06 PM, David Johnson wrote:<br>
>>> Carl,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Great E-mail !<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes, the UAW bureaucrats are very much involved in the 99
% Spring <br>
>>> thing.<br>
>>> When I went to their pathetic training in Chicago in
March, the head <br>
>>> of the<br>
>>> UAW Northern Ilinois Region was there.<br>
>>> I saw the UAW logo on his polo shirt and commented on it,
and that <br>
>>> is when<br>
>>> he introduced himself to me.<br>
>>> I know Greg Shotwell who Louis ( original e-mail subject
author ) <br>
>>> refers to<br>
>>> and YES ! The UAW over the last 30-years has de-evolved
into a <br>
>>> corporate<br>
>>> collaborationist so called " union " from it's once proud
militant <br>
>>> heritage<br>
>>> and actions during the 1930's and 40's and even through
the 70's.<br>
>>> I said from the begining of the Occupy Movement that rank
and file <br>
>>> Union<br>
>>> members need an Occupy Movement within the Unions as well,
<br>
>>> coordinated with<br>
>>> the general Occupy Movement.<br>
>>> Many liberals may feel uncomfortable about this topic, but
they must<br>
>>> understand that although the neo-liberal capitalists are
the primary <br>
>>> enemy,<br>
>>> the majority of the Union bureaucracy ( with the grand
exception of the<br>
>>> U.E. - United Electrical Workers ) are collaborators just
as the French<br>
>>> Vichy " government " were collaborators with the nazis,
and hence we <br>
>>> need to<br>
>>> support not the collaborators, but instead the REAL
Resistance and REAL<br>
>>> democracy !<br>
>>> If anyone doubts my statements I would be more than happy
to give <br>
>>> specific<br>
>>> examples about the UAW 's track record alone, not to
mention other <br>
>>> Union's<br>
>>> malfeasence against the democratic will and the best
interests of their<br>
>>> members they are suppose to represent.<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); height: 0pt;">__._,_.___</div>
<div id="ygrp-actbar"
style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-top: 15px;">
<div> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rebelmike@earthlink.net?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bsf-core%5D%20Notes%20on%20co-opting%20Occupy"
style="margin-right: 0pt; padding-right: 0pt;"> Reply to <span
style="font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bsf-core%5D%20Notes%20on%20co-opting%20Occupy">
Reply to <span style="font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwb3YwMzhkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzM2OTYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM2MTU5NDY2?act=reply&messageNum=3696">Reply
<span style="font-weight: 700;">via web post</span></a> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY3A2cGtuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjE1OTQ2Ng--"
style="font-weight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/message/3690;_ylc=X3oDMTM0M2FpZjNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzM2OTYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzM2MTU5NDY2BHRwY0lkAzM2OTA-">Messages
in this topic</a> (<span style="font-weight: 700;">5</span>) </div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vital"
style="padding: 10px; background-color: rgb(224, 236, 238); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;">
<span id="vithd"
style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-transform: uppercase;">Recent
Activity:</span>
<ul
style="margin: 0pt; padding: 0pt; list-style-type: none; display: inline;">
</ul>
<div
style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: rgb(30, 102, 174);"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMmlja28yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjE1OTQ2Ng--"
style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a> </div>
</div>
<div id="ft"
style="padding: 0pt 2px 0pt 0pt; font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; clear: both;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZ2tiMG9uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzM2MTU5NDY2"
style="float: left;"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif" alt="Yahoo! Groups"
style="border: 0pt none ;" height="15" width="137"></a>
<div style="color: rgb(116, 117, 117); float: right;">Switch to: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sf-core-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional"
style="text-decoration: none;">Text-Only</a>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sf-core-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest"
class="margin-rt" style="text-decoration: none;">Daily Digest</a> • <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sf-core-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"
style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"
style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a></div>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div>
<!-- ygrp-msg --><!-- Sponsor --><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 25px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; width: 160px; float: right; clear: none; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id="ygrp-reco"> </div>
<!-- End Recommendations --> </div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear: both; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 1px;">.</div>
</div>
<img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://www.sng.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailscanner/images/1x1spacer.gif"
alt="Web Bug from http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=7892663/grpspId=1705060375/msgId=3696/stime=1336159466/nc1=3848627/nc2=5191952/nc3=4836040"
height="1" width="1"> <br>
<div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); height: 0pt;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<style type="text/css"> <!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } a { color: #1e66ae; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { t
ext-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.
attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000
;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov u
l { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important; } --> </style>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!-- end group email --> </blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>