<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19222">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial><STRONG>Interesting statement
Rohn.,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>I agree with everything you said, except
the vegan statement, but let's not go there. Also, I am uncertain what you mean
by a " Jainist " ?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>I am proud to have voted for Nader for the
same reasons you mention, but unlike you, I have not given up on using elections
as a means of change.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Not the only tool in the toolbox ( forgive
me I am a Carpenter by profession ), but nevertheless one of
many.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Anyway, you mention media, what have you
done to engage the local alternative media that this community has an abundance
of per capita ?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Would you be willing and prepared to come
on the Illinois World Labor Hour radio or Labor's World View TV
?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rohnkoester@gmail.com href="mailto:rohnkoester@gmail.com">Rohn
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 01, 2012 10:58
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] my comment
to WILL/IPR Fwd: Chat with IllinoisPublic Media's Kimberlie Kranich today over
lunch and tellher what information you want from us so you can be aninformed
voter. Today at noon online</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Could someone explain their enthusiasm about voting for Nader
in 2000? I voted for Nader, too, but I also accept that he had no hope of
winning. The most I could say is that I helped to create a foundation of
support that would make Nader (or some other non-sociopath) into a viable
candidate in a future election -- but that didn't happened. So why the
enthusiasm? When I accept that federal elections no longer have a moral
dimension, then I don't use voter choice as a standard for moral arguments,
not that it had much to recommend it under the best of circumstances. Can
checking off boxes on a sheet of paper, along with millions of other people,
be regarded as a moral act or even a sign of personal responsibility? Feels
about as relevant as filling out a customer satisfaction survey.<BR><BR>This
issue is important to me because it gets at something deeper: What moral acts
can I engage in to diminish or end the war-life, which life seems to be the
default political culture in the U.S. at this point? More specifically, how
can I help to reduce the damage caused by the U.S. and its client states as we
pass into the post-empire period of global relations? Simply helping to keep
the idea in mind, such as by holding up a peace message during our street
demos, is part of the answer. The peace message has been all but banished from
public conversation, having been replaced by messages about ending the wars
(because they aren't *effective*). Giving people an opportunity to affirm a
message of peace feels like a symbolic gesture that still has consequence, if
only because there are so few other opportunities for such
affirmation.<BR><BR>What else? Engage my acquaintances in conversation,
yes. Engage my reps in dialog, yes. Stay active in local debates that
have impact on war-life issues (such as the jail expansion debate), yes. //
And then? Adopt a vegan diet? Study and adopt non-violent communication?
Engage in acts of nonviolent disobedience? Refuse to pay federal income
tax? Become an international witness for peace? Take a vow of
poverty? Become a Jainist? Individual responses to these questions seem
substantial in a way that voting in federal elections never will be. And yet,
what is the ratio of attention we give to them? Can local media like WILL
bring balance to that ratio, or will it always be too much to ask? Can we
imagine a media that would give proper perspective to a post-empire political
culture?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>(My response to the last question is practical and sort of boring: Do you
know how "birders" have "life lists"? These are lists that birdwatchers keep
of every bird they've ever seen. I'm not a birder, but I've known some. I
think we need to generate life-lists for peace activists -- that is, a list of
many ways that people can practice peace activism. The items on this list
might be arranged in a sort of progression from simple to difficult, and the
media that I have in mind would keep track of everyone's progress,
highlighting certain of these activities along the way. For instance, I would
like to hear Sam Yergler's story of engaging in civil disobedience during the
NATO protests in Chicago. I want to hear Stuart Levy's story of giving shelter
to homeless people. I want to hear Susan Parenti's story of post-9/11 peace
organizing. I'm not sure we can count on local media to tell such stories, at
least not with the detail they deserve. // Running for local office as a
peace candidate should be on the peace activist life-list in my opinion, as
should be campaigning on behalf of a local peace candidate. Voting for peace
candidates? Sure.)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>tl;dr: virtual voting realities risk producing virtual moralities;
war-life media won't give us peace-life media; peace activists need to know
each other and be known.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>rk</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Carl G. Estabrook <<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</A>>
wrote:<BR>> The 'Saturday Night Live' skit from the 1970s is better-known
now than what<BR>> it was satirizing, the "Point-Counterpoint" segment of
the CBS program '60<BR>> Minutes.'<BR>><BR>> Curtin portrayed the
liberal (60-Minutes' Shana Alexander); Dan Aykroyd a<BR>> right-winger
(James J. Kilpatrick).<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> On Jun 1, 2012, at 7:40
AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:<BR>><BR>>> the skit was a take on a
popular talk show counterpoint<BR>>> jane curtin would say something and
dan akroyd would counter,<BR>>> leading in with the line "Jane. You
Ignorant Slut."<BR>>><BR>>> She would then call him a Pompous
Ass.<BR>>><BR>>> It seemed a fitting descriptive. I thought
everyone knew it.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> On 6/1/2012 9:29 AM,
David Johnson wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> O.K.
Wayne,<BR>>>><BR>>>> Your right
!<BR>>>><BR>>>> I didn't get it at first, and I did come
across as a bit pompus initialy<BR>>>> and then defensive because I
was concerned about your use of the phrase ; "<BR>>>> ignorant slut
".<BR>>>> I am not familiar with the comedy routine your statement
was taken from.<BR>>>><BR>>>> David
J.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>> From: "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"<BR>>>> To: Jenifer
Cartwright<BR>>>> Cc: Peace-discuss List ; David
Johnson<BR>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:44 PM<BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] my comment to WILL/IPR Fwd: Chat
with<BR>>>> IllinoisPublic Media's Kimberlie Kranich today over lunch
and tellher what<BR>>>> information you want from us so you can be
aninformed voter. Today at noon<BR>>>>
online<BR>>>><BR>>>> David,<BR>>>> If you are going
to do Dan Akroyd imitations you really need to lighten<BR>>>> up a
bit.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> On 05/31/12 10:16,
Jenifer Cartwright
wrote:<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> On the
contrary, it's the only part of Wayne's post that I
actually<BR>>>>> liked!!<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
--- On Wed, 5/30/12, David Johnson <<A
href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> From: David Johnson <<A
href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</A>><BR>>>>>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] my comment to WILL/IPR Fwd: Chat
with<BR>>>>> IllinoisPublic Media's Kimberlie Kranich today over
lunch and tellher what<BR>>>>> information you want from us so you
can be aninformed voter. Today at noon<BR>>>>>
online<BR>>>>> To: "Peace-discuss List" <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>>,
"E. Wayne<BR>>>>> Johnson" <<A
href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</A>><BR>>>>> Date:
Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 8:17 PM<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
Wayne,<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> I know you are joking, but I do
not appreciate, and I am certain Jenifer<BR>>>>> doesn't either,
your last comment at the bottom.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> David
J.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
"E. Wayne Johnson" <<A
href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</A>><BR>>>>> To:
"David Johnson" <<A
href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</A>>; "Carl
Estabrook"<BR>>>>> <<A
href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</A>><BR>>>>> Sent:
Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:10 PM<BR>>>>> Subject: Re:
[Peace-discuss] my comment to WILL/IPR Fwd: Chat with<BR>>>>>
IllinoisPublic Media's Kimberlie Kranich today over lunch and tellher
what<BR>>>>> information you want from us so you can be aninformed
voter. Today at noon<BR>>>>>
online<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> > I am
reminded of saturday nite live...<BR>>>>> ><BR>>>>>
> roflmfao!<BR>>>>> ><BR>>>>> > David, you
pompous ass.<BR>>>>> ><BR>>>>> > On 5/31/2012
7:58 AM, David Johnson wrote:<BR>>>>> >>
*Jenifer,*<BR>>>>> >> **<BR>>>>> >> *With
all due respect, you are horribly misinformed.*<BR>>>>> >
[...you Ignorant
Slut.]<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>>>>> <A
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>>>>
<A
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR>>>>><BR>>>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Peace-discuss mailing
list<BR>> <A
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>
<A
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR><BR></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss
mailing
list<BR>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net<BR>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>