<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Furthermore, is Obama more likely to feel pressure now before the election or after he's won and isn't too concerned about pleasing anyone. Let's remember, the "shellacking" he got in 2010 wasn't due to a mandate, but rather so many people who came out in droves in 2008 just stayed home. Perhaps we didn't get an American spring because too many people are concerned about the elections and how it would reflect on Obama. </div><div><br></div><div>If Romney gets elected, there is a good chance it has to do with the job Obama has done or not done. Maybe with a Romney presidency, things will get worse faster and people may just start paying attention and get out on the streets without having to worry about who is in office. <br><br>Chris<div>(217) 898-5039<br><div><br></div></div></div><div><br>On Sep 2, 2012, at 11:09, "David Johnson" <<a href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">It's NOT ass backwards at all !</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">For the simple fact that the Dems are in power of
the Presidency which controls the Injustice Department, who are the one's
persecuting the whistle blowers.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">David J.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jencart13@yahoo.com" href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">Jenifer
Cartwright</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="cge@shout.net" href="mailto:cge@shout.net">C. G. Estabrook</a> ; <a title="ggregg79@yahoo.com" href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">Gregg Gordon</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="peace-discuss@anti-war.net" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">Peace Discuss</a> ; <a title="occupycu@lists.chambana.net" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">ocCUpy</a> ; <a title="peace@anti-war.net" href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">Peace</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 01, 2012 4:36
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU]
[Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market andDemonstration on Saturday;and, another on
Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama'sspeech?</div>
<div><br></div>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Sorry, clarifying my position:
<div>Yes, continue war/drone protests as usual -- both candidates are on
record for those
<div>Defer whistle-blower protests until after the election -- nothing
from the Romney camp re these (surely same as- or worse than Dems), plus
there were no protests at Repub convention for those. Already expecting
huge protests at Dem Conven compared w/ Repubs. ass-backwards thinking,
imho.<br>--- On <b>Sat, 9/1/12, Gregg Gordon <i><<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From:
Gregg Gordon <<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject:
Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and
Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley
Manning on eve of Obama's speech?<br>To: "C. G. Estabrook"
<<a href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br>Cc: "Jenifer Cartwright"
<<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>, "Peace Discuss"
<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>, "ocCUpy"
<<a href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>>, "Peace"
<<a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</a>><br>Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 3:15
PM<br><br>
<div id="yiv539381623">
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><span>So how many Americans died in Iraq this week? And
how's the missile shield in eastern Europe coming (to cite just two
significant differences with the Bush Administration)?</span></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span><br></span></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span>Look
-- I'm not saying give anyone a pass on anything. I'm saying
make your point strategically and intelligently. It's likely to
improve your effectiveness. </span></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span><br></span></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span style="FONT-STYLE: normal" class="yiv539381623Apple-style-span">Frankly,
I don't think there's anything a handful of people in C-U are going to
do in the next two months that will make an iota's difference to the
outcome of the election </span><i>or</i> the future of Bradley
Manning. I would guess 95% of the people who drive by any such
demonstration will have no idea who Bradley Manning is, and there's
nothing you can put on a placard that will inform them. It won't
even be covered by the local newspaper. So in that respect, I
don't care, but the larger point is worth considering. Do we do
these things to fulfill a sense of righteous indignation, or are we
trying to have an impact on future events?</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span><br></span></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><span><br></span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> C. G. Estabrook
<<a href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Gregg Gordon
<<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b> Jenifer Cartwright
<<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>; Peace Discuss
<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>; ocCUpy
<<a href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>>; Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</a>>
<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday,
September 1, 2012 10:23 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU]
[Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and,
another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's
speech?<br></font></div><br>
<div id="yiv539381623">
<div>It's important to assess how important the difference it makes
is. The answer seems to be, not much.
<div>
<div>Obama - although he campaigned against them - followed Bush's
economic and military polices, if in a more brutal and efficient
fashion.
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>That may be some slight reason to vote against him, but it's
certainly not a reason to support him.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Gregg Gordon <<a href="/mc/compose?to=ggregg79@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</div><br class="yiv539381623Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I
find it mind-boggling that anyone who lived through the years
2000-2008 really believes "it makes no difference."<br>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> C. G. Estabrook
<<a href="/mc/compose?to=cge@shout.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Jenifer Cartwright <<a href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>
<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b> Peace Discuss
<<a href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>;
ocCUpy <<a href="/mc/compose?to=occupycu@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
Peace <<a href="/mc/compose?to=peace@anti-war.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</a>>
<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday,
September 1, 2012 10:10 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU]
[Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and,
another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's
speech?<br></font></div><br>
<div id="yiv539381623">
<div>I think it's wrong to give Obama a pass on Bradley Manning and
hold off on condemning his crimes - from the suppression of
WikiLeaks to the murders of Americans and others - for ostensible
fear of a candidate (Romney) whose positions on economic and
military matters are inherently identical to those of the
administration. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>"Voting for reform-minded candidates should take about five
minutes, and then we go back to the important work on the ground to
change the conditions in which the mostly farcical election process
proceeds" [Chomsky]. --CGE</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>On Sep 1, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <<a href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</div><br class="yiv539381623Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">I'm guessing you guys haven't been listening
to the Repub Convention speeches, but Romney et al are
FAR, FAR, FAR worse than Obama et al... So how 'bout
we save our protests until AFTER the election, and use our
energy defeating the LOTS WORSE evils??? It won't
significantly affect YOUR lives if the Dems are defeated,
but it will be devastating to MILLIONS across the US and the
world.<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 8/31/12, Stuart Levy <i><<a href="/mc/compose?to=stuartnlevy@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From:
Stuart Levy <<a href="/mc/compose?to=stuartnlevy@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject:
[Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on
Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on
eve of Obama's speech?<br>To: "Peace" <<a href="/mc/compose?to=peace@anti-war.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</a>>,
"Peace Discuss" <<a href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>,
"ocCUpy" <<a href="/mc/compose?to=occupycu@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>Date:
Friday, August 31, 2012, 11:26 AM<br><br>
<div class="yiv539381623plainMail">The wars go on despite
the weather and so shall we (at least we'll
try).<br><br>Expect AWARE and CUCPJ at the Farmer's Market
tomorrow morning, 8-noon.<br><br>And, from 2-4, the
AWARE+OccupyCU demonstration will be at its usual
first-Saturday site,<br><br> Main and
Neil, downtown Champaign<br> 2-4 PM
Saturday, Sept. 1st<br><br>If it turns into a real
downpour, we'll retire somewhere nearby for
lunch.<br><br><br><br>There's also a
nationally-coordinated suggestion for groups to hold
demonstrations on *Thursday, September 6th*, in support of
Bradley Manning --<br><br> "Show Obama that
Bradley Manning is our hero"<br><br>Why the 6th?
That's the date of Obama's acceptance speech at the
DNC.<br><br>To make a definite *proposal*, how
about:<br><br> (proposed) Demonstration
in support of accused whistleblower Bradley
Manning<br> 5:00PM Thursday, Sept.
6th<br> Urbana Veterans'
Memorial<br> (that's
Broadway and Main, or, the NW corner of the block where
the county courthouse is)<br><br>What do people
think? (Could also make sense to complain
more broadly about Obama's unfulfilled promise as a peace,
civil liberties, etc. candidate from four years
ago.)<br><br>If you like the idea *and* think you can be
there for at least part of 5-6PM, please write back
(either to <a rel="nofollow">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>
or to occupyCU or to me, but not to the peace list
please).<br><br>If we have at least, say, five people who
believe they can do this, then let's go for it.
Meanwhile let's consider Sept. 6th as still
tentative.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss
mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>_______________________________________________<br>OccupyCU
mailing list<br><a href="/mc/compose?to=OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace
mailing list<br><a href="/mc/compose?to=Peace@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace</a><br><br><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<p>
</p><hr>
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Peace mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace</a><br></blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>OccupyCU mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>