<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"> Dean's campaign proved that there's strong support for moving things left again, and Obama, who called himself a Progressive, won big. The problem, of course, is who's really running things (Surprise, it's the corporations!), and whether there's still time for voters/elections to make a difference. <span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hopefully the answer is yes, b/c there ain't never gonna be a US Spring. </span><div><div><br>--- On <b>Mon, 9/3/12, Gregg Gordon <i><ggregg79@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79@yahoo.com><br>Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On<br>To: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13@yahoo.com>, "Luis Damián Reyes Rodríguez"
<ldamian21@gmail.com>, "Germaine Light" <lightport@sbcglobal.net>, "Stan Waggoner" <swag901@ymail.com><br>Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss@anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu@lists.chambana.net><br>Date: Monday, September 3, 2012, 12:03 PM<br><br><div id="yiv50317016"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">Yes, there's much that's depressing about the state of our politics, but you can't expect politicians to act like anything but politicians. And to be honest, I can't think of anything that's happened in the last 40 years that would convince a politician that running to the left is a winning strategy. That's our fault, not theirs.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Gregg Gordon <ggregg79@yahoo.com>; Luis Damián Reyes
Rodríguez <ldamian21@gmail.com>; Germaine Light <lightport@sbcglobal.net>; Stan Waggoner <swag901@ymail.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Peace Discuss <peace-discuss@anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu@lists.chambana.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, September 3, 2012 11:27 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OccupyCU] Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv50317016"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit;" valign="top"> [Hey Folks: I've again removed Peace b/c that list is only for announcements]<div> Yeah, re the Repub strategy -- Bill Moyers had a depressing NOW show on that. The Dems moved/kept moving to the right in order to compete (baaad idea)... and then came the teabaggers-Christian
Right-Libertarians, which moved both parties even further right -- shameful for the Dems, and off the charts for the Repubs..<div> If it were possible, I'd gladly remove the present broken wheel and replace it w/ a brand new one, but no way in hell that can happen -- a 3-wheeled wagon leaves a lotta collateral damage. So our only real choice is to work w/ what we have before we no longer have even that. <br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 9/3/12, Stan Waggoner <i><swag901@ymail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;"><div id="yiv50317016"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><div><span>I think what we need to do is to take back the Democratic Party. It is easier and quicker to use the wheel you have than to try to re-invent it. </span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span></span> </div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>The Conservatives set their plan in motion to take the Republican Party in 1964. It took them 16 years to get to Reagan. If we had tried to take the Democratic part back since even 1980 perhaps we could have avoided the Soft coup of 2000, and the outright theft of the election in Ohio in
2004.</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span></span> </div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>The Cons love to hear of liberals trying to build a new party. It helps <span id="yiv50317016misspell-0"><span>than</span></span> divide and <span id="yiv50317016misspell-1"><span>conquer</span></span> our country. We need to get together behind liberal candidates and use the system built by corporatist Democrats to save our country. Time is running out. We need to stand behind Obama, make him sit down for a few minutes so we can hold his feet to the fire of real hope, and change for our country.</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span></span> </div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>Stan Waggoner</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>AKA <span id="yiv50317016misspell-3"><span>Reasonable</span></span> Man Stan</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>WEFT</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <div style="margin:5px 0px;padding:0px;border:1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204);height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px;" class="yiv50317016hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Gregg Gordon <ggregg79@yahoo.com><br><br></font><span style="font-size:12pt;">Didn't we have this conversation 12 years ago?</span></div><div id="yiv50317016"><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div><span></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <div style="margin:5px 0px;padding:0px;border:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px;" class="yiv50317016hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Luis Damián Reyes Rodríguez <ldamian21@gmail.com><br> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On<br> </font> </div> <div id="yiv50317016">Wouldn't it be nice to live in a country where every four years you were not told that there is no alternative? (sure, Obama is bad, but look at Romney!) It is a vicious circle! The only way to get out of it is by breaking it! i.e. stop
supporting the lesser evil and build something independent from <span id="yiv50317016misspell-14" class="yiv50317016mark">Dems</span> and Reps!
Sure, it will take time... The more urgent it is to start now! Here's what folks at the Black Agenda Report have to say:<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/closer-you-think-top-15-things-romney-and-obama-agree">http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/closer-you-think-top-15-things-romney-and-obama-agree</a>
<h1 class="yiv50317016title">Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On</h1>
<div class="yiv50317016meta">
<div class="yiv50317016submitted">Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:37 — Bruce A. Dixon</div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font><font size="3"><b>by BAR managing editor Bruce A. Dixon</b></font></font></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">Republicans and Democrats, like Romney
and Obama are of one mind on many more things than they disagree about.
From war and empire to their policies on Big Ag, Big Energy, “clean coal
and safe nuclear power,” and the war on drugs their areas of agreement
are vast and troubling, and perhaps far more important than the
rhetorical and stylistic differences highlighted by US political
campaigns.</font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font size="4"><b>Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On</b></font></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font size="3"><b>by BAR managing editor Bruce A. Dixon</b></font></font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">Too much agreement between Republicans
and Democrats has always been bad news for those at the bottom of
America's class and racial totem poles. </font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">Back in 1875, Frederick Douglass </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">observed</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">
that it took a war among the whites to free his people from slavery.
What then, he wondered, would an era of peace among the whites bring us?
</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">He </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">already knew the answer. Louisiana had its <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.knowla.org/entry.php?rec=758">Colfax Massacre</a> two years earlier. </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">A</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> wave of thousands upon thousands of <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/40acres/sf_violence.html"><span id="yiv50317016misspell-15" class="yiv50317016mark">terroristic</span> bombings, shootings, mutilations, murders and threats</a> had driven African Americans from courthouses, city halls, legislatures, </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">from </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">their own </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">farms, businesses and </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">private properties and from the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-16"
class="yiv50317016mark">vot</span></font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span id="yiv50317016misspell-17" class="yiv50317016mark">ing</span> rolls </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">across the South. </font><font face="Arial,
sans-serif">They didn't get the vote back for </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">80</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> years, and they never did get the land back. </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">But n</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">one of that mattered </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">because on</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> the broad and important questions of those day</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">s</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> there was </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">at last </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">peace between white Republicans and white Democrats --- squabbles around the edges about who'd get elected, but </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">wide</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> agreement </font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">on the rules of
the game.</font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">Like Douglass, the shallow talking heads
who cover the 2012 presidential campaign on corporate media have
noticed out loud the remarkable absence of disagreement between
Republican and Democratic candidates on many matters. They usually
mention what the establishment likes to call “foreign policy.” But the
list of things Republicans and Democrat presidential candidates agree
on, from coddling Wall Street speculators, protecting mortgage
fraudsters and corporate wrongdoers to preventing Medicare For All to
so-called “foreign policy,” “free trade,” “the deficit” “clean coal and
safe nuclear power” and “entitlement reform,” is clearly longer and more
important than the few points of mostly race and style, upon which they
disagree.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">15</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Although unemployment is the highest it's been since the Great Depression, </b><b>the federal government</b><b> should </b><b>NOT </b><b>enact any sort of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-18" class="yiv50317016mark">WPA</span>-style program to put millions of people back to work.</b>
Under Democrat Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s, Depression-era
unemployment was tackled head on by direct federal hiring to dig
subways, build roads, schools, parks, sewers, recreational facilities
and public buildings. Oblivious of this history, Democrat Barack Obama
maintains that only the private sector can or should create jobs.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">14</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Medicare, Medicaid and social security are “entitlements” that </b><b>need to be cut to relieve </b><b>what they call “the deficit.”</b>
Republicans have been on record for this since forever, though they
claim not to want to mess with the Medicare people already over 65 are
getting. One of the first acts of the Obama presidency was to appoint a
bipartisan panel stacked with “deficit hawks” like Republican Allan
Simpson and Democrat Erskine <span id="yiv50317016misspell-19" class="yiv50317016mark">Bowles</span> to recommend raising retirement ages
and cutting back Medicaid, Medicare and social security, and pass a law
directing Congress to have an up or down no-amendments vote on its
recommendations. Fortunately the “cat food commission”, as it was
called, was deadlocked and offered none. But Obama and top Democrats,
most recently House Democratic leader Nancy <span id="yiv50317016misspell-20" class="yiv50317016mark">Pelosi</span> continue to express
their readiness for some kind of “grand compromise” with Republicans on
this issue.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">13</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>C</b><b><span id="yiv50317016misspell-21" class="yiv50317016mark">limate</span> change treaties and negotiations that might lead to them should be avoided at all costs. </b>
The differences between them are only style. Democrats admit that
climate change exists and is man-made, Republicans say it's a myth. But
both ignored the Kyoto protocol and Obama like Bush before him, has
worked tirelessly to delay, derail and boycott any actual talks that
might lead to constructive international climate change agreements.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">12</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>NAFTA was such a great thing it </b><b>really </b><b>should be extended to Central and South America and the entire Pacific rim.</b>
Again, there are differences in style. On the 2008 campaign trail,
Obama sometimes mumbled about renegotiating parts of NAFTA, and such.
But even before the primaries were done, press reports had him assuring
the Canadian government this was only campaign rhetoric, raw meat for
the rubes. In four years he has pushed NAFTA-like “free trade” corporate
rights agreements with South Korea, most of Central America and is now
secretly hammering out something called the <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.citizen.org/more-about-trans-pacific-partnership-agreement">Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement</a>.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">11</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b><span id="yiv50317016misspell-22" class="yiv50317016mark">Banksters</span> and Wall Street
speculators deserve their bailouts and protection from criminal
liability, but underwater and foreclosed homeowners deserve nothing. </b>
Well, maybe not exactly nothing. Republicans think underwater
homeowners deserve blame for forcing <span id="yiv50317016misspell-23" class="yiv50317016mark">banksters</span> to offer millions of
fraudulent high-interest loans were then re-sold to investors around the
world. Democrats think underwater homeowners deserve empty promises of
help that never quite arrives for most of the foreclosed, the
about-to-be foreclosed, their families and communities. But both agree
on free money for <span id="yiv50317016misspell-24" class="yiv50317016mark">banksters</span> and speculators but no moratorium on
foreclosures and no criminal investigations of mortgage and securities
fraud.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">10</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Palestinians should be </b><b>occupied, </b><b>dispossessed and ignored. Iran should be </b><b>starved
and threatened from all sides. Cuba should be embargoed, and Americans
prohibited from going there to see what its people have done in a half
century free of Yankee rule. </b><b>Black and brown babies and their
parents, relatives and neighbors should be bombed with drones in
Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and similar places. </b>The politicians and
corporate commentators have a misleading name for this. They call it
“foreign policy.” The realistic term for it is global empire.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">9</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Africa should be militarized,
destabilized, plundered and where necessary, invaded by proxy armies
like those of Rwanda, Ethiopia, Burundi or Kenya, or directly by Western
air and ground forces, as in Libya. </b> President Georgia Bush
announced the formation of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-25" class="yiv50317016mark">AFRICOM</span>, the US military command for the
continent which has officially swallowed all US civilian diplomatic
presence. But only a black US president, even under the cover of
“humanitarian war” could have invaded an African nation and openly
dispatched special forces to Central Africa.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">8</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>US Presidents can kidnap citizens
of their own or any nation on earth from anyplace on the planet for
torture, indefinite imprisonment without trial or murder them and
neighboring family and bystanders at will.</b> To be perfectly fair,
there are distinctions between Republicans and Democrats here that don't
amount to differences. Republicans Cheney and Bush got their lawyers to
say these things were OK and did them. Democrat Obama got Congress to
enact “laws” giving these acts a veneer of fake legality, something a
Republican probably could not have done. </font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">7</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Oil and energy companies, and other mega-polluters must</b><b> be freed to drill offshore almost everywhere, and </b><b>permitted </b><b>to poison land and watersheds with <span id="yiv50317016misspell-26" class="yiv50317016mark">fracking</span> </b><b>to achieve “energy independence”</b>.
The Republicans say “drill baby drill” but it seems only Democrats can
chill out enough supposed “environmentalists” to make this happen. Obama
campaigned on restricting offshore drilling four years ago, and
reversed himself just before the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-27" class="yiv50317016mark">BP</span> oil disaster in the Gulf. The White
House cooperated with <span id="yiv50317016misspell-28" class="yiv50317016mark">BP</span> in lying to the public about the extent of the
disaster and has shielded BO from paying anything like the value of
actual damages incurred to livelihoods, human lives and the environment.
</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">6</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>The FCC should not and must not
regulate telecoms to ensure that poor and rural communities have access
to <span id="yiv50317016misspell-29" class="yiv50317016mark">internet</span>, or to guarantee network neutrality. </b>Republicans have
always been in favor of digital redlining, against network neutrality.
Barack Obama claimed on the campaign trail he'd take a back seat to
nobody in guaranteeing network neutrality. But he appointed as FCC chair
a man who helped write the infamous Telecommunications Act of 1995,
which gave away the government-built <span id="yiv50317016misspell-30" class="yiv50317016mark">internet</span> backbone to a handful of
immensely powerful telecoms like AT&T and <span id="yiv50317016misspell-31" class="yiv50317016mark">Comcast</span>, and flatly
reversed himself on network neutrality. The Department of Justice was
forced to stop the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-32" class="yiv50317016mark">ATT</span>-T-Mobile merger by a storm of public outrage, but
approved the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-33" class="yiv50317016mark">Comcast</span>-NBC deal.</font></div>
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<div>
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Of course there really ARE such things as “clean coal” and “safe nuclear energy”.</b>
Again these are things Republicans have always pretended to believe. At
the 2008 Democratic convention Democrat Barack Obama joined them,
declaring he intended to be the president of “clean coal and safe
nuclear energy.” Obama is building a wave of 33 nuclear plants across
the country, the first two in mostly black and poor communities of
Georgia and South Carolina where leaky existing nukes are causing cancer
epidemics. The people know these things are myths. But Republican and
Democratic candidates for office, all the way down to state and county
officials seem not to.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">4</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>I</b><b><span id="yiv50317016misspell-34" class="yiv50317016mark">mmigrants</span> must be jailed and deported in record numbers. </b>To
be really fair, one should note that on this issue Republicans talk a
mean game about sending them all back and jailing tens or hundreds of
thousands along the way. But only President Obama has walked the walk,
deporting over a million immigrants in his term in office, often with
little or no due process and after housing many for months in atrocious
privatized immigration prisons.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">3</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>No Medicare For All. Forget about it eliminating the Medicare age requirement so that all Americans would qualify..</b>
Republicans never wanted Medicare even for seniors, let alone
everybody. Six or seven years ago Illinois State Senator Obama was
telling audiences that if they elected Democrats to Congress, the Senate
and the White House, they'd get single payer health care. But once in
office he excluded Medicare for All from the proposals on the table, and
enacted a national version of Massachusetts <span id="yiv50317016misspell-35" class="yiv50317016mark">RomneyCare</span>, requiring
everybody to purchase private health insurance or be penalized. </font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif">2</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>No minimum wage increases for
you, no right to form a union, no right to negotiate or strike if you
already have a union, and no enforcement or reform of existing labor
laws. </b> Again, Republicans have always opposed minimum wage laws.
Obama promised to boost the minimum wage his first two years in office,
while he still had majorities in the House and Senate. But he didn't do
this, or pass legislation beefing up the right to organize unions, which
has been eroded under Democrat and Republican administrations alike.</font></div>
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<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>The 40 year war on drugs must continue, and even mention of the prison state is unthinkable. </b>
There are 2.3 million people in US prisons and jails today, a per
<span id="yiv50317016misspell-36" class="yiv50317016mark">capita</span> total that beats the world. Politicians of both parties wag their
fingers in multiple directions. But as Michelle Alexander points out,
if the US prison population were rolled back to say, only 1 million, the
level it was about 1980, this would mean one million jobs, as
contractors, sheriffs, cops, bailiffs, judges and functionaries of all
kinds would have to go out and find real jobs. </font></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">The rabbit hole goes still deeper. We
didn't have to stop at these fifteen points of Democrat-Republican
agreement, but you get the idea. Just as in Frederick <span id="yiv50317016misspell-37" class="yiv50317016mark">Douglass's</span> day,
the more Democrats and Republicans agree, the worse it is for the rest
of us. </font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif">There was a time when black America had
its own principles, and formed the immovable leftmost rock of the
American polity. But in the 21st century, that rock has been dissolved
by a tide of corporate money. With the rise of a cohort of black
corporate Democrats and a right wing black Democrat in the White House
there is no longer even any vaguely <span id="yiv50317016misspell-38" class="yiv50317016mark">leftish</span> influence on Democratic
party politics. The House Progressive Caucus is the biggest in Congress,
with over seventy members, but is powerless and irrelevant. Except for
stylistic flourishes, the music they listen to and the color of some
faces, the differences between Republicans and Democrats seem to exist
mostly in political marketing campaigns and inside our own heads.</font></div>
<div style="margin-bottom:0.08in;">
<font color="#800000"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font><i>Bruce
A. Dixon is managing editor at Black Agenda Report, and a member of the
state committee of the Georgia Green Party. He can be reached via this
site's contact page, or at <span id="yiv50317016misspell-39" class="yiv50317016mark">bruce</span>.<span id="yiv50317016misspell-40" class="yiv50317016mark">dixon</span>(at)<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://blackagendareport.com/"><span id="yiv50317016misspell-41" class="yiv50317016mark">blackagendareport</span>.com</a>.</i></font></font></font></div>
<div class="yiv50317016gmail_quote">On Sun, <span id="yiv50317016misspell-42" class="yiv50317016mark">Sep</span> 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Germaine Light <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow">lightport@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;" class="yiv50317016gmail_quote">
<div><div>I admit I have not been to Occupy demos since last October, but I have been to almost every labor protest & event that I possibly can & sometimes one has to make choices re limited time. My heart is there with occupy still and I <span>am VERY active in this community!</span></div>
<div><span>And of course anyone has the right to protest anything! But I think I have earned a voice in this conversation!</span></div><div><div> Sent from my <span id="yiv50317016misspell-43" class="yiv50317016mark">iPhone</span><div>Germaine </div></div></div><div><div>
<div> On <span id="yiv50317016misspell-44" class="yiv50317016mark">Sep</span> 1, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Chris <span id="yiv50317016misspell-45" class="yiv50317016mark">Goodrow</span> <<a rel="nofollow">c_goodrow@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>I'm just curious, but the people who are opposed to the focus of a protest? Are these people who actually participate in these protests?</div>
<div></div><div>How many civilians died in drone strikes this year? How many Americans were targeted as enemy combatants and killed in the past two years? Chris<div><a rel="nofollow">(217) 898-5039</a>
<div></div></div></div><div> On <span id="yiv50317016misspell-46" class="yiv50317016mark">Sep</span> 1, 2012, at 17:55, "Gregg Gordon" <<a rel="nofollow">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><div></div><blockquote type="cite">
<div><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"><div><span>So how many Americans died in Iraq this week? And how's the missile shield in eastern Europe coming (to cite just two significant differences with the Bush Administration)?</span></div>
<div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;">
<span>Look -- I'm not saying give anyone a pass on anything. I'm saying make your point strategically and intelligently. It's likely to improve your effectiveness. </span></div><div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;">
<span><br></span></div><div style="font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;"><span style="font-style:normal;">Frankly, I don't think there's anything a handful of people in C-U are going to do in the next two months that will make an iota's difference to the outcome of the election </span><i>or</i> the future of Bradley Manning. I would guess 95% of the people who drive by any such demonstration will have no idea who Bradley Manning is, and there's nothing you can put on a placard that will inform them. It won't even be covered by the local newspaper. So in that respect, I don't care, but the larger point is worth considering. Do we do these things to fulfill a sense of righteous indignation, or are we trying to have an impact on future
events?</div><div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;">
<span><br></span></div><div></div> <div style="font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <div style="margin:5px 0px;padding:0px;border:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px;" class="yiv50317016hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> C. G. Estabrook <<a rel="nofollow">cge@shout.net</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Gregg Gordon <<a rel="nofollow">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Jenifer Cartwright <<a rel="nofollow">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>; Peace Discuss
<<a rel="nofollow">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>; ocCUpy <<a rel="nofollow">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>>; Peace <<a rel="nofollow">peace@anti-war.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:23 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-50" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span> for Bradley Manning on eve of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-51" class="yiv50317016mark">Obama's</span> speech?<br>
</font> </div>
<div><div>It's important to assess how important the difference it makes is. The answer seems to be, not much.<div> <div>Obama - although he campaigned against them - followed Bush's economic and military polices, if in a more brutal and efficient fashion.<div>
<div></div><div>That may be some slight reason to vote against him, but it's certainly not a reason to support him.</div><div></div><div><div><div>On <span id="yiv50317016misspell-52" class="yiv50317016mark">Sep</span> 1, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Gregg Gordon <<a rel="nofollow">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-size:12pt;">I find it mind-boggling that anyone who lived through the years 2000-2008 really believes "it makes no
difference."<div><span><br></span></div><div></div> <div style="font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <div style="margin:5px 0px;padding:0px;border:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);height:0px;line-height:0;font-size:0px;" class="yiv50317016hr"></div> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> C. G. Estabrook <<a rel="nofollow">cge@shout.net</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Jenifer Cartwright <<a rel="nofollow">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Peace Discuss <<a rel="nofollow">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>; ocCUpy <<a rel="nofollow">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>>; Peace <<a rel="nofollow">peace@anti-war.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday,
September 1, 2012 10:10 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-56" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span> for Bradley Manning on eve of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-57" class="yiv50317016mark">Obama's</span> speech?<br>
</font> </div>
<div><div>I think it's wrong to give Obama a pass on Bradley Manning and hold off on condemning his crimes - from the suppression of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-58" class="yiv50317016mark">WikiLeaks</span> to the murders of Americans and others - for ostensible fear of a candidate (Romney) whose positions on economic and military matters are inherently identical to those of the administration. </div>
<div></div><div>"Voting for reform-minded candidates should take about five minutes, and then we go back to the important work on the ground to change the conditions in which the mostly farcical election process proceeds" [Chomsky]. --CGE</div>
<div></div><div></div><div><div>On <span id="yiv50317016misspell-60" class="yiv50317016mark">Sep</span> 1, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <<a rel="nofollow">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit;font-size-adjust:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;" valign="top">I'm guessing you guys haven't been listening to the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-61" class="yiv50317016mark">Repub</span> Convention speeches, but Romney <span id="yiv50317016misspell-62" class="yiv50317016mark">et</span> <span id="yiv50317016misspell-63" class="yiv50317016mark">al</span> are FAR, FAR, FAR worse than Obama <span id="yiv50317016misspell-64" class="yiv50317016mark">et</span> <span id="yiv50317016misspell-65" class="yiv50317016mark">al</span>... So how 'bout we save our protests until AFTER the election, and use our energy defeating the LOTS WORSE evils??? It won't significantly affect YOUR lives if the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-66" class="yiv50317016mark">Dems</span> are defeated, but it will be devastating to MILLIONS across the US and the world.<br>
<br>--- On <b>Fri, 8/31/12, Stuart Levy <i><<a rel="nofollow">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left-color:rgb(16, 16, 255);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;">
<br>From: Stuart Levy <<a rel="nofollow">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: [Peace-discuss] Farmer's
Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-67" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span> for Bradley Manning on eve of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-68" class="yiv50317016mark">Obama's</span> speech?<br>To: "Peace" <<a rel="nofollow">peace@anti-war.net</a>>, "Peace Discuss"
<<a rel="nofollow">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>, "ocCUpy" <<a rel="nofollow">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 11:26 AM<br><br><div>The wars go on despite the weather and so shall we (at least we'll try). Expect AWARE and <span id="yiv50317016misspell-70" class="yiv50317016mark">CUCPJ</span> at the Farmer's Market tomorrow morning, 8-noon. And, from 2-4, the AWARE+OccupyCU demonstration will be at its usual first-Saturday site,
Main and Neil, downtown <span id="yiv50317016misspell-72" class="yiv50317016mark">Champaign</span> 2-4 PM Saturday, Sept. 1st If it turns into a real downpour, we'll retire somewhere nearby for lunch. There's also a nationally-coordinated suggestion for groups to hold demonstrations on *Thursday,
September 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-73" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span>*, in support of Bradley Manning -- "Show Obama that Bradley Manning is our hero" Why the 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-74" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span>? That's the date of <span id="yiv50317016misspell-75" class="yiv50317016mark">Obama's</span> acceptance speech at the <span id="yiv50317016misspell-76" class="yiv50317016mark">DNC</span>. To make a definite *proposal*, how
about: (proposed) Demonstration in support of accused <span id="yiv50317016misspell-77" class="yiv50317016mark">whistleblower</span> Bradley Manning 5:00PM Thursday, Sept. 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-78" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span> <span id="yiv50317016misspell-79" class="yiv50317016mark">Urbana</span> Veterans' Memorial (that's Broadway and Main, or, the NW corner of the block where the county courthouse is)
What do people think? (Could also make sense to complain more broadly about <span id="yiv50317016misspell-80" class="yiv50317016mark">Obama's</span> unfulfilled promise as a peace, civil liberties, etc. candidate from four years ago.) If you like the idea *and* think you can be there for at least part of 5-6PM, please write back (either to <a rel="nofollow">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a> or to occupyCU or to me, but not to the peace list please).
If we have at least, say, five people who believe they can do this, then let's go for it. Meanwhile let's consider Sept. 6<span id="yiv50317016misspell-82" class="yiv50317016mark">th</span> as
still tentative. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list<a rel="nofollow">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table> _______________________________________________<br>OccupyCU mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
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</div> </div> </div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span>
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</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><span>OccupyCU mailing list</span><span><a rel="nofollow">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a></span>
<span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a></span></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div> -- Damián.
</div> </div> </div> </div></div> _______________________________________________ OccupyCU mailing list<a rel="nofollow">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br><br> </div> </div> </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></td></tr></table>