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<DIV>You notice that I said “more or less” when talking about homogeneous
ideology and culture ( which can also be extended to the practices of civility
and compromise) and not “totally” or “completely” homogeneous. That little
spat was a kind of exception; but it lasted only a few years with a much longer
period of animosity and disdain after the fighting came to an end.
However, more important to the issue, it can be argued that both the Northern
and Southern whites in the upper and middle classes as well as even the lower
classes had more in common culturally and ideologically than they had
differences. Both regarded the non-white population as being less than
fully human or equal to themselves. Both supported a capitalist version of
economics with special emphasis on private property rights and an aversion to
taxes. Both believed in a limited notion of participatory democracy for an
aristocratic class of landed and/or wealthy upper and middle class white
males. Neither believed in equitable justice, civil rights, education, or
human living conditions for all as a public obligation of governments and
employers or rights for ordinary citizenry. The disagreement was less over
moral and ideological philosophy than over economic issues relating toconflicts
between the needs and interests of urban industrial versus rural agrarian
economies.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for whether the Republican Party poorly represents the views of
Christianity or not, that is a value judgment and really is not relevant to the
discussion at hand. The fact is that Christianity has formally or
informally, overtly or covertly, explicitly or implicitly been the default
religion of the establishment, of the organizations and agencies it has created
and supports, of the institutions, political parties and government that operate
in the society, and of the society itself. There has been and is a
systemic bias and prejudice against other religions and against atheism with a
few begrudging bones being tossed to them from time to time. That the
religious right has gravitated to the Republican Party is true in the sense that
the Republican Party has always represented and been dominated by WASPs and the
Protestant religious right only naturally finds a home there. However, the
Democratic Party has in the past been dominated by and representative of mostly
Irish and Italian, non-Protestant Christians along with the minority religions
(i.e., Jews mostly) who were not accepted by the Republican WASPs; subsequently,
the Catholic religious right (and now the Jewish religious right, although they
are now beginning to move to the Republican Party now that the anti-Semitism
there has decreased and many of the Protestant religious right have become
quasi-Zionists) gravitated to the Democratic Party as a natural home. The
recent post-WWII increase in Democratic Party membership by blacks and Latinos
has changed the complexion of the Democratic party slightly in that the Irish
and Italian Catholics still dominate the Party but African-American protestants
and Muslims along with Latino Catholics have increased in numbers requiring the
Party to represent a few more of their interests and values – at least
symbolically. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have to wonder why you used the two categories of Catholic and Latino as
if they were necessarily distinct groups. Most Latinos that I know are
Catholic, although most Catholics are not Latino. It may indicate
that for most lay Catholics and many Latinos homosexuality and abortion are not
as high priority an issue with respect to other issues as they may be for the
Church leadership who tend to be conservative and place a high priority on those
issues. </DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ewj@pigsqq.org
href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">E. Wayne Johnson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> September 06, 2012 6:48 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=ls1000@live.com href="mailto:ls1000@live.com">Laurie
Solomon</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">Stan
Waggoner</A> ; <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on
Ghandi</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN>Up until the Viet Nam
war, the culture and ideology of Amerika was more or less homogeneous; with
the Viet Nam war and after, it has become more diverse and
contentious.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>Really?
<BR>I suppose that little spat between the south and the Yankees was pretty much
a celebration of national unity and amity?<BR><BR>I would say that the
Republican Party rather poorly represents the views of Christianity.
<BR><BR>It doesnt make any sense at all that Catholics and Latinos should lean
Democrat when one<BR>considers that the Democrats tend to favour homosexuality
and abortion, which things are<BR>shunned by Catholics and Latinos. But
the Republicans have been ineffective in opposing<BR>the creep of homosexuality,
militant feminism, and abortion, so one could hardly say that the<BR>Republican
party represents genuine Christian values in any significant way.<BR><BR>Rick
Warren, the charlatan neocon whizkid who is author of books that many of
<BR>Laurie's churchy WASPs buy and read, came out in favour of Obama <BR>in
2008. Many would identify him with the Religious Right, fewer would
<BR>identify Warren as a bloodsucking douchebag<BR>(there's an unfortunate
unintended mixed metaphor... I meant he was a bloodsucker<BR>and a db... a db is
a pressure device...not a vacuum... uh...er...).<BR><BR>The Republican party has
indeed for a long time been divided into factional groups. It is
clear<BR>that the neoconservatives are dominant at present. Some so-called
"religious rightists" like<BR>Gary Bauer are quite simply just textbook
neocons.<BR><BR>*<BR>The Tea Party was originally a grassroots libertarian
movement started by Ron Paulers. It has long since<BR>been co-opted by
more standard mainstream Republicans, but many Tea Partiers still don't much
like Romney.<BR><BR>Likewise the Occupy! movement was started by an
anarcholibertarian group before it was co-opted by standard
mainstrean<BR>Democrat and pro-organized labour power groups. The "We are
the 99%" was a term coined by<BR>anarcholibertarian David DeGraw. Here is
what DeGraw had to say about the Occupy! movement:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><I>“<FONT color=#000099>Republicans and Democrats, along with their Wall
Street masters, <BR>are so arrogant, deluded with wealth, completely lacking
perspective, shortsighted and, quite frankly, ignorant. </FONT></I></P>
<P><I><FONT color=#000099>As the economic top one-tenth of one percent has
more wealth than they have ever had, <BR>the middle class is quickly
disappearing and poverty is soaring. As politicians ignore the <BR>needs of
the suffering masses in favor of a Kleptocratic Oligarchy, which operates
<BR>above the law, it is only a matter of time before an uprising takes hold.
</FONT></I></P>
<P><I><FONT color=#000099>After analyzing societal and economic indicators
within the US, in comparison to <BR>rebelling countries, it is not a matter of
whether people will revolt or not, it’s a matter of
when.”</FONT></I></P></BLOCKQUOTE>DeGraw, like most libertarians, thought that
the problem and the solution was so simple that anyone with half a
brain<BR>could grasp it. He didn't figure in the massive jello-like brown
blob of systemic inertia.<BR><BR>It was a brilliant co-optation strategy for the
Establishment to identify Occupy! as left-wing, liberal Democrat-backed<BR>so as
to divide them from other groups that have the 1% as a common enemy, such as the
Tea Party and other libertarian<BR>and anarcholibertarian groups.<BR><BR>The
Enemy is neither D nor R. It has money. It has most of the
money. <BR>It controls the media, and it has a deep hook set in the jaws
of large numbers of <BR>people who are enthralled by what the 1% can do for
them.<BR><BR><BR>On 9/7/2012 4:11 AM, Laurie Solomon wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BAY169-DS4460585AABB6FAA4686A1ABDA80@phx.gbl type="cite">
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<DIV>> <SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9.6pt">If working
from within were a fools errand, then we have the fools in the religious right
to thank for today's Republican Party, IMHO.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial>I will not argue with you that the religious right
is composed of fools; but I do not agree with you that their working from
within the Republican Party has brought about the current Republican
Party. That they have always been in the Republican party is not what I
question; nor is the fact that they have been dominant off and on from time to
time (particularly in hard economic times, times when the WASP values and
interests were being challenged, and times when racial and ethnic superiority
and authority were being challenged) something to be questioned.
However, I do question that they alone via working within the party have been
effective in gaining control and setting the policies and positions of the
current Republican Party. That they have gained control and exerted
influence over Party policies and practices is in no small measure fueled by
external sources (i.e., global uncertainty and domestic insecurity, the state
of the economy, the rapid increase in population size of minorities vis-à-vis
the majority white population, the rise of external organizations such as the
Tea Party & other right-wing militias and libertarian groups, etc.).
In point of fact, many of the so-called 1% corporate captains of industry that
have always controlled the Party and its policies held many of the same views
and inclinations as those on in the religious right who are now more visible
and vocal; but circumstances did not warrant their “coming out” so to speak
since they already had formally or informally in place the practices and
policies that they were advocating. WASPs controlled the country,
minorities (racial and ethnic) were tacitly and informally kept under the
thumb of the White power structure, Christianity – if not Protestantism – was
the defacto religion of the country, immigration was tightly restricted when
it came to non-Europeans, and gays remained closeted. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial>><SPAN><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9.6pt">After the
failure of the Goldwater folks, It was only 4 years before the more moderate
Republicans were able to get Nixon elected. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN>Ironically, it was Goldwater who feared and
warned about the religious right and its involvement in politics and the
Republican Party. Who says that it was the more moderate Republicans who
got Nixon nominated and/or elected. You cannot be saying that Nixon was
a moderate or did not have right-wing religious inclinations. Yes, he
was a little more prudent, sophisticated, and pragmatic than today’s
Republicans; but was that anything but a façade. For the most part, the
changes in both parties reflect the changes in Amerikan society. Up
until the Viet Nam war, the culture and ideology of Amerika was more or less
homogeneous; with the Viet Nam war and after, it has become more diverse and
contentious. Thus, while prior to Viet Nam, what I will call “gentleman”
politics where the opponents were civil and willing to compromise was
practiced for the most part; after Viet Nam, politics in Amerika grew up in a
sense and became like the rest of the world where politics became ideological,
lacking in civility, and uncompromising. The main difference between
Amerika and the other countries in the world is that the other countries
employ a parlimentary system in which a winner takes all criteria does not
exist and compromise and/or coalitions are practiced unlike the U.S. where
minority parties and positions are not given proportional representation in
the legislatures or the main political parties. The main parties in the
U.S have sought to be umbrella parties who try to appear as if they are
pragmatically taking centrist positions and putting forth majority positions
and candidates – even when they obviously are not really either umbrellas or
centrist when one looks under the hood.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN>><SPAN><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9.6pt">I
do not believe that the 99%<SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>ers</SPAN> are some
sort of monolithic group that all think the same way. Politics is a little
like religion in that you have to BELIEVE to be a devout follower of either
party, and willing to not only vote against your >personal best interest,
but the best interest of the country.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN>Good; but some people seem to thinks
or that a majority of the 99%ers think the same way, support the same
things, or have the same or similar interests. Like all general
categories, they make oversimplified distinctions while ignoring substantive
details. So you will agree that some of the 99%ers – and possibly a
majority of them, although we have know way of knowing what portion of this
category support or believe what – may actually support (1) the candidates,
parties, and policies of the Republican Party;(2) the values, policies, and
beliefs of the Tea Party; the views and practices of the religious right or
other extremist groups; and or the positions and behaviors of the corporate
establishment and/or the 1%. You will agree that many – if not a
majority of the 99% may have vested interests that are different from those
suggested by the Occupy movement and might even oppose that movement and their
positions. You will also agree that it is possible that a large number
of the 99%ers may even hold racist views, ethnic and gender biases, be
anti-gay and/or anti immigrant, support various law enforcement and home
security tactics and measures, and/or back national defense and foreign
policies that have been recently instituted or currently
exist.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN>Yes politics is more than a little
like religion in that you have to BELIEVE (i.e. be more or less a “true
believer”) to be a devout follower of either party; but this in itself
typically means that you are willing to vote against your own personal
interests and/or the interests of the country but are not willing to vote
against your political party and its candidates for almost any reason – a “my
party and its candidates, platforms, and policies right or wrong”
attitude. Thus, most of those who engage in politics as active or
passive participants tend to be blind followers and those who merely observe
or act a detached actors usually are cynical and complain but neither very
seriously active nor without serious cases of apathy. Given what you
say, how can you put any faith insiders bringing about change from inside
their political parties. Especially since both major parties have become
vehicles of corporate & labor bureaucratic organizational establishment,
have adapted to the current cultural-technological-and economic societal
environment and conditions.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN>As for outside sources of change like
the Occupy movement, They suggest or, on occasion, claim claim to represent
the interests of the 99%; but as you suggest, the 99% do not all have the same
or even similar interests, beliefs, or values. Moreover, we have no idea
what proportion of the 99%ers support what independent of what spokes people
in the Occupy movement claim or suggest. Nor do we know what the nature
or strength of commitment the various categories of members or alleged members
have with respect to movement activism and support when it comes to generating
resources, giving time and energy, or taking risks. So at best, this
movement may furnish a long range – if it lasts that long – amorphous pressure
group for change in both the political and economic culture as well as in the
political system and the political parties; but more than likely their
positions will be absorbed and coopted by the parties and the system so as to
result in insignificant symbolic reforms – mostly in language and platforms
but not in actual action, practices, or policies – as has happened so often in
the past with third parties and pressure groups and
movements.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245); -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Stan Waggoner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> September 06, 2012 9:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=LS1000@LIVE.COM href="mailto:LS1000@LIVE.COM"
moz-do-not-send="true">LAURIE</A> ; <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on
Ghandi</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV><SPAN>Laurie,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>If
working from within were a fools errand, then we have the fools in the
religious right to thank for today's Republican Party, IMHO.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>After
the failure of the Goldwater folks, It was only 4 years before the more
moderate Republicans were able to get Nixon elected. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Then
there is the Carter situation. The Baptist Church thought the election
of Carter would give them a seat of power. Carter rejected their desire
to take over our government. So the religious right took over the
Republican Party one step at a time, and now we have what we have <SPAN
id=misspell-0 class=mark>WRT</SPAN> the Republicans. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>I
do not believe that the 99%<SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>ers</SPAN> are some
sort of monolithic group that all think the same way. Politics is a
little like religion in that you have to BELIEVE to be a devout follower of
either party, and willing to not only vote against your personal best
interest, but the best interest of the country.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>One
step at a time the Democratic party can be moved to the left. We just
have to do the hard work of getting people that can be elected thinking the
right way. The veil of my "church" right or wrong must be torn
down. The veil of my country, right or wrong must be replaced with
standards that all countries must follow. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>We
have allowed the Republicans for too long to be the party of "believers",
while liberals keep searching for a new direction. Last week it was
anti-war, this week it is anti-corporation. The easiest place to put
both of these groups, and all the other splinters, together is under an
existing organization's umbrella. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>As
long as we are a bunch of scattered idealists, we will have no power.
Without power, we can not save our country.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> LAURIE <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:LS1000@LIVE.COM">mailto:LS1000@LIVE.COM</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A>; peace-discuss <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September
5, 2012 6:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [<SPAN id=misspell-3 class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN
id=misspell-4 class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN> on <SPAN id=misspell-5
class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1594626217>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>Ok</SPAN>, I only got two copies of this
message instead of the 8 copies I got the last time (but I will give it time
to see if the other 6 copies show up). I realize that this problem may
not be an issue that stems from your end (but in some cases it could be if one
cc’s other forums and groups as well as the various individuals that the post
is replying to).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Second, I agree with you that the Democratic Party is first and foremost
an establishment party just like the Republican Party ( they are both bought
and sold by the establishment which is made up of both public and private
bureaucracies in public and private organizations and business enterprises who
have a vested interest in maintaining the status <SPAN id=misspell-7
class=mark>quo</SPAN> or the illusion of the status <SPAN id=misspell-8
class=mark>quo</SPAN>, fantasies and myths about the “good old days,”the
virtues of hard work and self-made people, and notions of equity (if not
equality) in which everyone gets what they earn and deserve through honest
free competition and markets, etc. The so-called left-wing progressives
in the Democratic Party resemble moderate Eisenhower Republicans and those
Democrats that call themselves <SPAN id=misspell-9
class=mark>centralists</SPAN> look and ac t more like <SPAN id=misspell-10
class=mark>Goodwater</SPAN> Conservatives. This makes the Democratic
Party resemble the Reagan Republican Party as you suggest.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, while your statement may have been intended as tongue-in-cheek;
there are many who do hold the optimistic (if not <SPAN id=misspell-11
class=mark>utopian</SPAN>) view that a perfect or near-perfect third party can
be established and that it will not be <SPAN id=misspell-12
class=mark>coopted</SPAN> by the practical realities of our political process
and out society so as to become a substitute for or replacement of the current
establishment political parties or just a new addition political party of the
same type as the existing ones. This almost as pervasive as the optimistic
myth that “the American People” or a large majority of the “99%” actually want
and support what the “liberals” and “progressive” activists say that they do
and who they claim to represent. If this were the case, even with
extensive mass media propaganda and big budget expenditures of the corporate
establishment and the 1%, of the “American People” and/or the majority of
the “99%” would not be electing time after time and election after
election the people that they do for public office. They would not be
continually fooled into believing the media, the politicians, corporate
establishment or any of their generalized and content-free promises.
Similarly, I think that notions of working from the inside of any organization
is not only a fool’s errand but overly optimistic. Minor peripheral
reforms might be possible; but major systemic changes are not. They
typically come from outside the organization. In the case of such
animals as the political parties, their members constitute a captured audience
in that they have no options but to belong to, support, and participate in the
party organizations that they identify with and belong to. They operate
under the premise that their party of choice is the lesser of two evils and
better to have your evil people in power than the other party’s people.
Thus, if they become dissatisfied, they do not leave their party and join the
other one – except in the rarest of cases. Instead,, they are more
likely to either drop out of the party and become cynical and apathetic or
drop out of involvement with the political process totally in favor of going
along silently with what ever happens in order to get along with the least
practical immediate trouble to themselves and their family and friends.
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245); -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">Stan Waggoner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 05, 2012 5:41 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=ls1000@live.com href="mailto:ls1000@live.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:ls1000@live.com">Laurie Solomon</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [<SPAN id=misspell-14
class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN id=misspell-15 class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN>
on <SPAN id=misspell-16 class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>First, I apologize for any duplicate emails you may have received.
I promise I only hit send once. Gremlins I guess.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id26139><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id26140><SPAN>Second, my post was intended to be a
little tongue in <SPAN id=yiv1594626217misspell-0><SPAN>cheek</SPAN></SPAN>.
Building a third party at this juncture of corporate spending on elections is,
I think, a fools mission. Therefore, the only choice that makes any sense to
me is to move the Democratic Party further left, as the Republican party has
been moved to the right by the corporations. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id26141><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id26142><SPAN>The Democratic Party of today looks more
like the Republican Party of Reagan than I would like.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class="yiv1594626217ms__id25390 yiv1594626217ms__id26143"><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class="yiv1594626217ms__id25390 yiv1594626217ms__id26144"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Laurie Solomon <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:ls1000@live.com">mailto:ls1000@live.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> peace-discuss <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September
5, 2012 1:57 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [<SPAN id=misspell-18 class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN
id=misspell-19 class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN> on <SPAN id=misspell-20
class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1594626217>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>I really do not want to get involved in this discussion; but something
(besides the fact that I received 8 duplicate posts of the same message from
Stan) has triggered my response mechanism. I have two questions to
ask: </DIV>
<DIV>First, I think the statement (“<FONT face=Arial><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.6pt">We can defeat them tomorrow by spending our time
trying to build a perfect third party today”)</FONT></FONT> is overly
optimistic in many sense of the term. 1) What evidence do you have that a
third party will result in defeating anyone in the future – much less bring
about real policy changes? 2) When has there ever been a “perfect” third
party; and what make you think that perfection is achievable – never mind any
goal of absolute perfection and settling for partial perfection at a level
significantly greater than has ever existed?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Secondly, since many of the Democratic faithful would never vote
Republican under any circumstances and see “bad” Democratic politicians and
officials as being the lesser of two evils, how do you propose the threat to
vote Republican or even third party to be taken seriously as a real threat by
the likes of <SPAN id=misspell-21 class=mark>Feinstein</SPAN>, Emmanuel, or
any other Democratic politician or official? I remember how Democrats
complained about how votes for third party candidate, Ralph Nader, cost the
Democrats a Presidential election and gave it to the Republicans. Given
this sort of response to acting upon one’s threat to not vote for someone from
the Democratic Party, such threats become meaningless.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245); -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">Stan Waggoner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> September 04, 2012 9:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=davegreen84@yahoo.com
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true" ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">David Green</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@anti-war.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A> ;
<A title=occupycu@lists.chambana.net href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [<SPAN id=misspell-23
class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN id=misspell-24 class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN>
on <SPAN id=misspell-25 class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>There is more of us than them. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Building
one from scratch means <SPAN id=yiv1594626217misspell-0>getting</SPAN> some
from them, and some from us, dividing both parties, and creating a
third. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>In
1856 when the Whig party was already dieing that was doable.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>The
easiest way now is to move the Democratic Party further to the left. We
do it a step at a time, not moving mountains a <SPAN
id=yiv1594626217misspell-1><SPAN>Boulder</SPAN></SPAN> at a time.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id38589><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1594626217ms__id38589><SPAN>One final thought. Both Dianne
<SPAN id=misspell-26 class=mark>Feinstein</SPAN> and <SPAN id=misspell-27
class=mark>Rahm</SPAN> Emmanuel want to get re-elected. Without us they
can not. They need to know that. We may be able to defeat them
today by voting Republican. We can defeat them tomorrow by spending our
time trying to build a perfect third party today.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September 4,
2012 8:22 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[<SPAN id=misspell-29 class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN id=misspell-30
class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN> on <SPAN id=misspell-31
class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1594626217>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>If you bother to "take over" the party, then why not just build one
from scratch, or take over one that is not being used. You're talking the
party of Dianne <SPAN id=misspell-32 class=mark>Feinstein</SPAN> and <SPAN
id=misspell-33 class=mark>Rahm</SPAN> Emmanuel.</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-TOP: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>; <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September
4, 2012 8:16 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [<SPAN id=misspell-35 class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN id=misspell-36
class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN> on <SPAN id=misspell-37
class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1594626217>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN><SPAN id=misspell-38 class=mark>Ok</SPAN>, so those of us on the
left should throw away the organizations that have gotten the Democratic
party where it is, and start building a "perfect" Democratic Party.
<SPAN id=misspell-39 class=mark>HooHaa</SPAN>. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>In
the time it takes to do that, there will be nothing left for the "perfect"
Democratic Party to govern. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>We
need to go to the Democratic Party meetings each month, we need to call in
to the <U>Penny For Your Thoughts</U> show on <SPAN id=misspell-40
class=mark>WDWS</SPAN>, we need to talk to each person we see, and tell them
the truth. Anything less, anything other (third party), only lets the
extreme right (Republican Party) destroy our country.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>We
need to re-take the Democratic Party for the benefit of the PEOPLE not the
party.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>AKA
Reasonable Man Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><SPAN
id=misspell-41 class=mark>WDWS</SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September
4, 2012 9:03 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[<SPAN id=misspell-42 class=mark>OccupyCU</SPAN>] <SPAN id=misspell-43
class=mark>Finkelstein</SPAN> on <SPAN id=misspell-44
class=mark>Ghandi</SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1594626217>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.zcommunications.org/gandhi-and-occupy-by-norman-finkelstein">http://www.zcommunications.org/gandhi-and-occupy-by-norman-finkelstein</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is a lot to be learned from <SPAN id=misspell-45
class=mark>Finkelstein's</SPAN> study of Gandhi that is relevant to tactics
being discussed on various local lists. Notice that elections and voting in
our two party system are (tellingly) not even mentioned. Neither party is
mentioned. In my opinion, Republicans promote the <SPAN id=misspell-46
class=mark>neoliberal</SPAN> agenda by proposing extreme measures. Democrats
promote the <SPAN id=misspell-47 class=mark>neoliberal</SPAN> agenda by
proposing compromises with Republicans. This has been a collective effort
for goals that rulers of both parties support. It's worked pretty well for
36 years, since the campaign of 1976 when Carter was elected.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are worthy goals of equality and recognition regarding race,
gender, sexual orientation, immigrants, etc. still to be achieved,
obviously. Unfortunately, these goals are by and large co-opted as a part of
Democratic Party tactics to win votes for their ultimately <SPAN
id=misspell-48 class=mark>neoliberal</SPAN> agenda, which ultimately
converts genuine grievances into identity politics<VAR
id=yiv1594626217yui-ie-cursor></VAR>. That is why, even given an
understanding of the historical struggle for voting rights for
African-Americans, I'm left cold by all the attention being devoted to
voting rights by the progressive media. Of course there are legitimate
ongoing grievances and Republican outrages; but ultimately an emphasis on
"working within the system" is only to the advantage of the domianant in a
system based on domination.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And don't forget that both parties will try to run to the "right" of
each other regarding foreign policy, especially Israel; ain't nobody gonna
get my Jewish vote.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David
Green</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>OccupyCU
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow
target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</A><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
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