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<DIV>Skipping all the flowery and obscure bullshit that you always force your
readers to wade through and if I read you correctly, I think that you are making
a distinction between two tactics to achieve the same strategy. I can
really care less about the two tactics and the differences between them; but I
do agree with you as to there being only one strategy – and that is for the
people to rise up and strike back (as you put it), independent of how they do
it. That has been in the past and is now in the present the only way to
create significant substantive systemic change – everything else is merely
peripheral reforms of the existing system and practices – not radical change of
the existing system and practices. You say, “As I see it right now there
are only two possible ways forward....”; I say that you may just come to this
insight right now but that has always been the case. I would only add that
there may be more tactical ways then you suggest but they all involve the same
thing – a population that rises up and slays the establishment. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This, of course, might have been easier and more feasible in days of yore
than it is in contemporary times; and we both know that is is never going to
happen in Amerika unless the system totally collapses under its own weight or
because of forces and disasters imposed from outside over which it has no
control. Unfortunately, as current trends illustrate, even then the
radical change will be toward a Hobbesian state of a “war of all against all” in
which “life is nasty, brutish, and short.” Even then, politics will be no
more than a circulation of elites in which the established elites will work to
insure that they stay in power and on top, although they will have to be
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size=3 face=Calibri>constantly on their guard against revolutions that bring a
new set of competing elites into power with a new set of policies to support and
serve their vested interests and survival.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ewj@pigsqq.org
href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">E. Wayne Johnson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> September 05, 2012 8:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=LS1000@LIVE.COM
href="mailto:LS1000@LIVE.COM">LAURIE</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">Stan
Waggoner</A> ; <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on
Ghandi</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Perhaps
many tire of hearing this from me, but I still accept the idea that
there<BR>will be absolutely no remission of sin without bloodshed. The
Sins of the American people<BR>and their government (of course it's your
government, you put them in office and have sustained them)<BR>will be at some
future day called to account. A day of reckoning, if you will, if you
prefer or disdain<BR>such a turn of phrase. Call it Karma or Mount
Carmel. Quanbu jiushi yiyang. <BR>It's all the same thing, sez Gomer
Pyle.<BR><BR>The blood that Obama and his minions are shedding abroad for your
hearts is not an <BR>acceptable sacrifice. You can't scapegoat the Arabs
and Afghans, or persecute the Persians and the Pashtuns for your sins.<BR>It
just won't work, and you can raise Cain about it how unfair it is for your
veggies but that blood will cry out from the<BR>ground that something just ain't
right.<BR><BR>As I see it right now there are only two possible ways
forward. <BR><BR>One is for the good people to rise up and slay the
prophets of Obamney<BR>and feed the lovely and delightful Killary to the
dogs.<BR><BR>It is unlikely that the pepper-scented cowards of Amerika<BR>will
rise up and bite their masters. Many think that whole notion of a
violent overthrow is<BR>nauseating if not just plain undesirable, and would even
defend the rights of their masters to keep<BR>them under bondage.<BR><BR>The
other way is to "invite in" an invading "military force" to do the
"killing". Actually this is far more<BR>likely and seems to be the mode
for correcting an empire in decline. Since the people are
unable/unwilling<BR>to sharpen and put in effect their own razor, a hired one
will come in to do the shaving on a contractual<BR>basis so to speak.
Joel's army seems to be equipped with some cool pyrotechnical
"entertainment".<BR><BR>As some miscreant whose name i dont recall wrote about
the manifest destiny without apologies to Pat, <BR>the huns will slip up behind
the sleeping amerikans and hit them over the back of the head with a sock full
of shit.<BR><BR>*<BR>I return you to your vital discussions of the importance of
honouring the desire of those delicate ones on<BR>the "peace" list to keep
their eyes well shuttered (lettuce dye a pace in
pace).<BR><BR><BR>*****<BR>....Ok.... the guy's name is John Strausbaugh, the
book is "Sissy Nation" and here is an excerpt:<BR><BR>"....unless we stop acting
like such sissies, <BR>soon enough some lean, angry barbarians from somewhere
out Beyond Fundadome <BR>are going to overrun us, ramming their bayonets in our
lard guts <BR>like fingers poking the Pillsbury Doughboy, only we won't be
giggling.”<BR><BR>***<BR>Well, Raggedy-man. Ain't we a
pair.<BR><BR><BR><BR>On 9/6/2012 7:38 AM, LAURIE wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BAY169-DS17B615D824B0278694CEDBBDA90@phx.gbl type="cite">
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<DIV>Ok, I only got two copies of this message instead of the 8 copies I got
the last time (but I will give it time to see if the other 6 copies show
up). I realize that this problem may not be an issue that stems from
your end (but in some cases it could be if one cc’s other forums and groups as
well as the various individuals that the post is replying to).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Second, I agree with you that the Democratic Party is first and foremost
an establishment party just like the Republican Party ( they are both bought
and sold by the establishment which is made up of both public and private
bureaucracies in public and private organizations and business enterprises who
have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo or the illusion of the
status quo, fantasies and myths about the “good old days,”the virtues of hard
work and self-made people, and notions of equity (if not equality) in which
everyone gets what they earn and deserve through honest free competition and
markets, etc. The so-called left-wing progressives in the Democratic
Party resemble moderate Eisenhower Republicans and those Democrats that call
themselves centralists look and ac t more like Goodwater Conservatives.
This makes the Democratic Party resemble the Reagan Republican Party as you
suggest.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, while your statement may have been intended as tongue-in-cheek;
there are many who do hold the optimistic (if not utopian) view that a perfect
or near-perfect third party can be established and that it will not be coopted
by the practical realities of our political process and out society so as to
become a substitute for or replacement of the current establishment political
parties or just a new addition political party of the same type as the
existing ones. This almost as pervasive as the optimistic myth that “the
American People” or a large majority of the “99%” actually want and support
what the “liberals” and “progressive” activists say that they do and who they
claim to represent. If this were the case, even with extensive mass
media propaganda and big budget expenditures of the corporate establishment
and the 1%, of the “American People” and/or the majority of the “99%”
would not be electing time after time and election after election the people
that they do for public office. They would not be continually fooled
into believing the media, the politicians, corporate establishment or any of
their generalized and content-free promises. Similarly, I think that notions
of working from the inside of any organization is not only a fool’s errand but
overly optimistic. Minor peripheral reforms might be possible; but major
systemic changes are not. They typically come from outside the
organization. In the case of such animals as the political parties,
their members constitute a captured audience in that they have no options but
to belong to, support, and participate in the party organizations that they
identify with and belong to. They operate under the premise that their
party of choice is the lesser of two evils and better to have your evil people
in power than the other party’s people. Thus, if they become
dissatisfied, they do not leave their party and join the other one – except in
the rarest of cases. Instead,, they are more likely to either drop out
of the party and become cynical and apathetic or drop out of involvement with
the political process totally in favor of going along silently with what ever
happens in order to get along with the least practical immediate trouble to
themselves and their family and friends. </DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Stan Waggoner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 05, 2012 5:41 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=ls1000@live.com href="mailto:ls1000@live.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Laurie Solomon</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on
Ghandi</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>First, I apologize for any duplicate emails you may have received.
I promise I only hit send once. Gremlins I guess.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=ms__id26139><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=ms__id26140><SPAN>Second, my post was intended to be a little tongue in
<SPAN id=misspell-0><SPAN>cheek</SPAN></SPAN>. Building a third party at this
juncture of corporate spending on elections is, I think, a fools mission.
Therefore, the only choice that makes any sense to me is to move the
Democratic Party further left, as the Republican party has been moved to the
right by the corporations. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=ms__id26141><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=ms__id26142><SPAN>The Democratic Party of today looks more like the
Republican Party of Reagan than I would like.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class="ms__id25390 ms__id26143"><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class="ms__id25390 ms__id26144"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Laurie Solomon <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:ls1000@live.com">mailto:ls1000@live.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> peace-discuss <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September
5, 2012 1:57 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on Ghandi<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<META content=off http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>I really do not want to get involved in this discussion; but something
(besides the fact that I received 8 duplicate posts of the same message from
Stan) has triggered my response mechanism. I have two questions to
ask: </DIV>
<DIV>First, I think the statement (“<FONT face=Arial><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.6pt">We can defeat them tomorrow by spending our time
trying to build a perfect third party today”)</FONT></FONT> is overly
optimistic in many sense of the term. 1) What evidence do you have that a
third party will result in defeating anyone in the future – much less bring
about real policy changes? 2) When has there ever been a “perfect” third
party; and what make you think that perfection is achievable – never mind any
goal of absolute perfection and settling for partial perfection at a level
significantly greater than has ever existed?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Secondly, since many of the Democratic faithful would never vote
Republican under any circumstances and see “bad” Democratic politicians and
officials as being the lesser of two evils, how do you propose the threat to
vote Republican or even third party to be taken seriously as a real threat by
the likes of Feinstein, Emmanuel, or any other Democratic politician or
official? I remember how Democrats complained about how votes for third
party candidate, Ralph Nader, cost the Democrats a Presidential election and
gave it to the Republicans. Given this sort of response to acting upon
one’s threat to not vote for someone from the Democratic Party, such threats
become meaningless.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245); -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=swag901@ymail.com href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">Stan Waggoner</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> September 04, 2012 9:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=davegreen84@yahoo.com
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true" ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">David Green</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@anti-war.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A> ;
<A title=occupycu@lists.chambana.net href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on
Ghandi</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>There is more of us than them. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Building
one from scratch means <SPAN id=yiv1304673585misspell-0>getting</SPAN> some
from them, and some from us, dividing both parties, and creating a
third. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>In
1856 when the Whig party was already dieing that was doable.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>The
easiest way now is to move the Democratic Party further to the left. We
do it a step at a time, not moving mountains a <SPAN
id=yiv1304673585misspell-1><SPAN>Boulder</SPAN></SPAN> at a time.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1304673585ms__id38589><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"
class=yiv1304673585ms__id38589><SPAN>One final thought. Both Dianne
Feinstein and Rahm Emmanuel want to get re-elected. Without us they can
not. They need to know that. We may be able to defeat them today
by voting Republican. We can defeat them tomorrow by spending our time
trying to build a perfect third party today.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September 4,
2012 8:22 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[OccupyCU] Finkelstein on Ghandi<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1304673585>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>If you bother to "take over" the party, then why not just build one
from scratch, or take over one that is not being used. You're talking the
party of Dianne Feinstein and Rahm Emmanuel.</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-TOP: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Stan Waggoner <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:swag901@ymail.com">mailto:swag901@ymail.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>; <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September
4, 2012 8:16 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [OccupyCU] Finkelstein on Ghandi<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1304673585>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Ok, so those of us on the left should throw away the
organizations that have gotten the Democratic party where it is, and start
building a "perfect" Democratic Party. HooHaa. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>In
the time it takes to do that, there will be nothing left for the "perfect"
Democratic Party to govern. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>We
need to go to the Democratic Party meetings each month, we need to call in
to the <U>Penny For Your Thoughts</U> show on WDWS, we need to talk to each
person we see, and tell them the truth. Anything less, anything other
(third party), only lets the extreme right (Republican Party) destroy our
country.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>We
need to re-take the Democratic Party for the benefit of the PEOPLE not the
party.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>AKA
Reasonable Man Stan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>WDWS</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Green <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net</A>;
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September
4, 2012 9:03 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[OccupyCU] Finkelstein on Ghandi<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1304673585>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.zcommunications.org/gandhi-and-occupy-by-norman-finkelstein">http://www.zcommunications.org/gandhi-and-occupy-by-norman-finkelstein</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is a lot to be learned from Finkelstein's study of Gandhi that is
relevant to tactics being discussed on various local lists. Notice that
elections and voting in our two party system are (tellingly) not even
mentioned. Neither party is mentioned. In my opinion, Republicans promote
the neoliberal agenda by proposing extreme measures. Democrats promote the
neoliberal agenda by proposing compromises with Republicans. This has been a
collective effort for goals that rulers of both parties support. It's worked
pretty well for 36 years, since the campaign of 1976 when Carter was
elected.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are worthy goals of equality and recognition regarding race,
gender, sexual orientation, immigrants, etc. still to be achieved,
obviously. Unfortunately, these goals are by and large co-opted as a part of
Democratic Party tactics to win votes for their ultimately neoliberal
agenda, which ultimately converts genuine grievances into identity
politics<VAR id=yiv1304673585yui-ie-cursor></VAR>. That is why, even given
an understanding of the historical struggle for voting rights for
African-Americans, I'm left cold by all the attention being devoted to
voting rights by the progressive media. Of course there are legitimate
ongoing grievances and Republican outrages; but ultimately an emphasis on
"working within the system" is only to the advantage of the domianant in a
system based on domination.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And don't forget that both parties will try to run to the "right" of
each other regarding foreign policy, especially Israel; ain't nobody gonna
get my Jewish vote.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David
Green</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>OccupyCU
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow
target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"
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class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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