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How does silly and childish compare with shrewish and bitchy on the
value scale?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/13/2012 3:08 AM, Rachel Storm wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAARP02DH7KwboHOwKjcq=qtqfZsOpfx-k0ZhPKm5a9ZujB-GYQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><font color="#000000"><font><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">David,</font></font></font>
<div><font color="#000000"><font><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I sent this email to Occupy, not
Peace Discuss and your question illustrates precisely what I seek to
illuminate. Listservs are designed for the people on them. Not others
and the assumption isn't that they will be forwarded willy nilly to
folks off of the list. I expect that from people typically, but not
from people I am trying to build movements with--we can do better. I'm
not going to engage with you, when you seek no understanding and only
want to ignite debate. It's silly and childish.</font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Rachel<br>
</font></font></font><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:46 PM, David Green
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">
<div class="im">
<div><span>"There is nothing revolutionary about conversations
here. I can listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing
contests virtually anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford
me."</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span></span> </div>
</div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span>Rachel,
do you think that an individual's views can be reduced and/or
dismissed on account of their age, race, and/or gender?</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span>David
Green<var></var></span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div
style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
<div
style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; line-height: 0pt; min-height: 0px; font-size: 0px;"
readonly=""></div>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> C. G.
Estabrook <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Rachel Storm
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rachelstrm@gmail.com"
target="_blank">rachelstrm@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net"
target="_blank">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>; "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net"
target="_blank">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net"
target="_blank">occupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday,
September 12, 2012 8:24 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo prisoner death
highlights Democrats' hypocrisy<br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
I thought the local Occupy group supported the efforts of AWARE against
US war and racism abroad - even to participating in our demonstrations.<br>
<br>
That's why I posted to the "OccupyCU" list information about the
ongoing scandal of Guantanamo, which is scanted in the corporate media
(as is Manning's persecution, etc.). <br>
<br>
--CGE<br>
<br>
On Sep 12, 2012, at 12:16 AM, Rachel Storm <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rachelstrm@gmail.com" target="_blank">rachelstrm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I must share this...<br>
> <br>
> I've been both terribly bored and fairly annoyed at how this
Occupy listserv is being used. I am someone that cannot regularly
attend Occupy meetings and for me, it's important to be able to stay
connected, but what is Occupy here--in this communication space? What
is worth occupying? There is nothing revolutionary about conversations
here. I can listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing
contests virtually anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford
me. I'm tired of having to ask men in the movement to check their
privilege. It shouldn't have to be asked-- I hear men in the movement
say they want revolution, but I don't see willingness to do the work.
We are failing to model what we seek. We need more imagination than
this. We can do better. <br>
> <br>
> • We can value dialogue over debate. Modeling that we're a
community of people seeking understanding, rather than trying to get
their word in edgewise. Those with privilege in the movement (men,
white folks, etc.) can step back, make space, talk less/listen more.
This isn't hard to do and makes a world of difference. (Just count the
number of women, people of color, etc. actively engaged on these C-U
activist lists or being listened to at meetings and you'll see how deep
this problem is.)<br>
> • We can "check each other" in an act of care. Knowing that
we're not perfect, but we're trying and we have a responsibility to
help one another grow where possible. We can tell those who are
dominating conversation to step back, to ask for clarification, and to
listen.<br>
> • We can reject "occupation" as our language in solidarity
with native peoples all over North America. We can privilege people of
color and women's voices--knowing these voices ought to drive the
movement that seeks decolonization and an end to marginalization. <br>
> • We can spend more time imagining what we want, alternatives,
and raging where it matters!<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> In the past month alone, I've witnessed a silencing conversation
around the rape allegations facing Assange that signals to me--as a
woman--that the same men that say they care about women in the movement
are no where to be found when it comes time to stand up against
violence against women. I've been to meetings where women's voices were
rarely heard--and I know my sisters had plenty to say! <br>
> I am reminded of Adrienne Rich who cautioned a white-led feminist
movement, "Without addressing the whiteness of white feminism, our
movement will turn in on itself and collapse." <br>
> <br>
> There are other voices we need in this space. This local
organizing will not last unless we turn our attention to these matters.
<br>
> <br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_s3X0uW9Ec&feature=player_embedded"
target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_s3X0uW9Ec&feature=player_embedded</a><br>
> <br>
> love and rage,<br>
> <br>
> RS<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
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