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David,
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<div>If you had attended the Friday Forum last Friday, you would have heard Claudia Lennhof and her useful activist organization, CCHCC, discuss why, despite its obvious faults (some of which you mention), Obamacare is/will be still of substancial benefit
to many people who lack the means for health security. People like Claudia and Jenifer are not fools or fooled; they have particular concerns that lead them to support candidates like David Gill and the lesser evil presidential candidate. Give them some slack.
Issues such as women's rights (choice) (about which Wayne and Carl are more than skeptical) and health care are important and in their view view should not be sacrificed for political/ideological purity. </div>
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<div>That said, I agree that I pesonally cannot vote for Obama and retain a good conscience; I'll vote for the very good and intelligent Jill Stein. Yet, either Obama or Romney will be our next president, and I hope Romney is not the one. It is conceivable
that to right the system, a Romney presidency may <i>ultimately</i> engender the necessary resistance/revulsion that an Obama in office would not. However, my guess is that it is unlikely. The system is grossly corrupt, and I'm not sure it can be fixed. We,
most of our population, are in a bad sad way. </div>
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<div>See</div>
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<div><a href="http://warisacrime.org/content/respectable-murderers-open-letter-dan-ellsberg">http://warisacrime.org/content/respectable-murderers-open-letter-dan-ellsberg</a></div>
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<div>where the same issues are implicitly debated.</div>
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<div>Best regards,</div>
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<div>Mort</div>
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<div>On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:59 PM, David Johnson wrote:</div>
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<div><strong><font face="Arial">Wayne,</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">'</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">Jenifer won't explain, because like a typical liberal, she will ignore any and all legitimate facts that disrupts her illusions that the democratic party and all of it's corporate controlled politicians are anything but the salvation
of our country and the world.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">When in fact, they are half of the problem along with the republican neo-cons.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">Obama-Romney Care via the Heritage Foundation right-wing think tank incubator where it was conceived, is nothing more than a diversion of crumbs to save the corporate health-care system in the U.S. as opposed to what needs to
happen, which is MEDICARE FOR ALL !</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"> Like ALL CIVILIZED Industrial countries in the WORLD !</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">I will remind Jenifer and others that it was the Obama appointed health care commision that BLOCKED ALL Medicare for ALL advocates from participating or even speaking.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">Over 100 - Doctors, Nurses. and others were ARRESTED for trying to testify !</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">Meanwhile over 140 some Private Health Insurance corporate lobbyists were given the red carpet welcome and given unlimited access to the commitee.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">Is this what Democracy looks like ?</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">But like most wishy-washy liberals who will NOT only NOT fight for their supposed principles, but will in fact CHANGE their principles to conform with the democratic party, as opposed to DEMANDING that the democratic party change
if they want her ( our ) votes. That is CONDITIONAL support for democratic politicians as opposed to their current UNCONDITIONAL support of democratic politicians,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial">and then
the usual rationalizations and apologist rhetoric.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"> Jenifer will engage in intellectual contortion acts to defend the corporate agenda of the corporate controlled and financed democratic party above ALL issues that she and others like her PRETEND to advocate for !</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font face="Arial">David J.</font></strong></div>
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<div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div>
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<b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="ewj@pigsqq.org" href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"</a></div>
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="jencart13@yahoo.com" href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">Jenifer Cartwright</a></div>
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</a></div>
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:57 PM</div>
<div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] Vote for Obamacare</div>
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Please explain how Öbamacare is not<br>
for the benefit of the Insurance Companies.<br>
<br>
*<br>
<br>
Look here Paulie, you've gotta cover all these<br>
pre-existing conditions. Yes, that's going to cost you some cash.<br>
No sweat, look, its chickenfeed beside what we are going to do for you.<br>
<br>
We're going to FORCE EVERYONE to buy Health Insurance. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Yeah, really. No we're not shitting you. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Constitution? No sweat. Nothing is unconstitutional<br>
until the Supremes say so. No not Diana Ross.<br>
John Roberts. Yes, he is in our pocket.<br>
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On 11/04/12 13:31, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
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<td valign="top" style="font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; ">Worth yr attention and yr vote.<br>
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--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Fri, 11/2/12, Will O'Neill, Health Care for America Now<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:info@healthcareforamericanow.org"><info@healthcareforamericanow.org></a></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br>
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<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">The Koch brothers, Karl Rove and industry groups like America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce want you to stay home on election day so they can put the insurance companies back in charge of
your health care. In fact, outside groups have spent almost $800 million (that we know of) to stop health care reform and put America in the hands of special interests.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">They have relentlessly attacked a law that provides health care to millions, covers people with pre-existing medical conditions and protects Medicare and Medicaid for future generations.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">That’s why it’s so important for you to cast your vote on Nov. 6 – even if you are not in a swing state. The national popular vote is going to be used to claim a mandate to either overturn or fully implement Obamacare.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">This election is about two different visions of America: one where we make sure that everyone can have financial security and dignity in times of illness, and one where we throw our sick to the wolves.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">If you don’t know your polling place,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="http://www.vote411.org/enter-your-address" href="http://action.healthcareforamericanow.org/page/m/3560db53/51340768/30b88182/786f173a/2488689317/VEsH/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">you
can find it here</a>. Please go!</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14px; ">Will O’Neill<br>
<a title="http://healthcareforamericanow.org/" href="http://action.healthcareforamericanow.org/page/m/3560db53/51340768/30b88182/786f1739/2488689317/VEsE/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Health Care for America Now</a></span></p>
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