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Zero is very patient and takes on the characteristics what is added to
it.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/24/12 10:53, David Green wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1353725620.87691.YahooMailNeo@web142401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div><span>"It has its own local Patient Zero."</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Who
might that be?</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I've
been quite clear (per Chomsky & Finkelstein) about the fact that
inappropriate emphasis on the power of the Israel Lobby borders on
anti-semitism--not the kind that will actually bring harm to Jews, but
the kind that will discredit the Palestinian cause, as well as distract
Americans interested in that cause from the nature of the workings of
their own support for Israel in the Middle East.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>There
are some on the left who can be fairly accused of professing "the
socialism of fools." </span><span>Nevertheless, there is an
overwhelming tendency to carefully separate criticism of Israel from
criticism of Jews--to a fault.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Then
there are those who profess the liberalism of fools. In the 1960s, some
of these were honest enough to begin to call themselves
neoconservatives, and display their imperial mentality for all to see.
Others cling to the hope that the existence of the "new anti-semitism"
on the left will vindicate their support for Israel, and U.S. foreign
policy in general, as some sort of a humanitarian mission.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Most
liberal Jews, now repelled by Netanyahu and those to his right, find
themselves confused and silenced. They vote for Obama on the basis of
identity politics.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Please
keep me informed on how the witchhunt for anti-semites on the left is
proceeding. From what I hear, the fascists in Greece, Hungary, and
Florida like to wave the Israeli flag. That isn't at all surprisng,
given the legacy of Israel's relationship with apartheid South Africa.
When it comes to digging up some non-Muslim anti-semites, the left is
pretty much all that's left. They won't find many, so they'll have to
invent them. Maybe the F.B.I. can train some informants to pay mentally
ill leftists to say nasty things about Jews.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
would add that David Gehrig has stooped so low as to enter comments
using my name on the Daily Illini website to try to frame me as an
anti-semite. On that basis, even beyond his comments here, he can't be
taken seriously.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>I
predict that you won't be hearing from him on this list anymore, and
not be because of any censorship.</span></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>David
Green</span></div>
<span></span>
<div><br>
<blockquote
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style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Gehrig
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org"><david-cu@nukulele.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday,
November 23, 2012 6:12 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
All I can say is, wow.<br>
<br>
Folks, it's really very simple.<br>
<br>
There is a forty-year-old strain of antisemitic propaganda which
started with the fascist right and is now reshaping itself to build an
audience on the left.<br>
<br>
It has made its first appearance on the left here in CU.<br>
<br>
It has its own local Patient Zero.<br>
<br>
I was hoping for at least one response that actually addressed the
topic directly, but apparently I was being too optimistic.<br>
<br>
If I were asked, point blank, whether this list actually cares about
antisemitism in CU as anything other than a trigger for pre-cooked
tirades, at this point I'd have to say no, not to any noticeable
degree, except apparently as a springboard to launch into a discussion
about the JFK assassination.<br>
<br>
Like I said -- wow.<br>
<br>
@%<<br>
<br>
On 2012-11-23 12:21, David Johnson wrote:<br>
> " Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy<br>
> theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a
waste of<br>
> time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real<br>
> problems in the world. "<br>
> <br>
> NORMAN FINKELSTEIN HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS PHENOMENA,<br>
> THAT BEING " THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY ", THAT HAS NOT ONLY MADE
CERTAIN<br>
> PEOPLE MONEY BUT HAS MORE IMPORTENTLY, AS YOU DESCRIBED DAVID, BEEN<br>
> USED TO DISTRACT AND JUSTIFY THE NAZI LIKE BEHAVIOUR OF THE ISRAELI<br>
> GOVERNMENT.<br>
> <br>
> IN TERMS OF THE JFK ASSASINATION AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS, AS<br>
> OPPOSED TO THEORIES OR GOVERNMANT COVER-UPS LIKE THE BUSH APPOINTED<br>
> 9/11 COMMISION AND THE WARREN COMMISSION, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY<br>
> DISAGREE.<br>
> KENNEDY ASSASINATION, M.L. KING ASSASINATION, MALCOLM
X ASSASINATION,<br>
> AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS SHOULD BE STUDIED AND DISCUSSED ALONG
WITH<br>
> DOCUMENTED FACTS OF : COINTELPRO, CIA SPONSORED COUPS AND<br>
> ASSASINATIONS, RIGGED ELECTONS, FALSE FLAG ACTIONS, ETC..<br>
> THE IMPORTENCE IS TWO FOLD ;<br>
> 1) TO KNOW WHAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS DONE IN THE PAST ON BEHALF
OF<br>
> THE 1 %, SO THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL KNOW AND HENCE NOT
BELIEVE<br>
> THE LIES OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, ETC.. TO JUSTIFY MILITARY<br>
> ACTIONS AND THE ABUSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES.<br>
> 2) WHEN DEALING WITH ANY GROUP OF CRIMINALS LIKE THE U.S, RULING<br>
> CLASS 1%, ONE MUST KNOW THEIR M.O., WHICH WILL ALSO ALLOW THE
AMERICAN<br>
> PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND HOPEFULLY HOW TO PREVENT / DEAL
WITH<br>
> IT IN THE FUTURE.<br>
> <br>
> OF COURSE SINCE 9/11 2001 THE RULING CLASS AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA<br>
> HAS DONE AN EXTENSIVE PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGN TO CONVINCE MANY PEOPLE
IN<br>
> THE U.S. THAT ANY ACCUSATION ( NO MATTER HOW WELL DOCUMENTED )<br>
> OF COLLABORATION / MISDEEDS BY THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL IS "<br>
> CONSPIRACY THEORY " AND HENCE NOT TRUE.<br>
> AS IF THE WEALTHY AND THE POWERFUL DON'T COORDINATE ACTIONS OR EVEN<br>
> TALK TO EACH OTHER.<br>
> <br>
> I DO AGREE DAVID THAT ONE SHOULD NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME DWELLING
ON<br>
> THESE SORT OF THINGS, HOWEVER TO IGNORE THE CRIMINAL HISTORY AND
PAST<br>
> PRACTICES OF THE 1 % RULING CLASS IS AT OUR OWN PERIL.<br>
> <br>
> DAVID JOHNSON<br>
> <br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>> FROM: David Green<br>
>> TO: peace-discuss<br>
>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM<br>
>> SUBJECT: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial<br>
>> <br>
>> The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other things,
regarding the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of the
Palestinians, begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the present
time. It's important, because it's widespread and politically
consequential.<br>
>> <br>
>> The small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated
out of all proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli depredations,
as well as to distract attention from ongoing American-sponsored
atrocities around the world.<br>
>> <br>
>> Chomsky says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by
not suppressing Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries in
Europe. Suppression and illegality only attracts more attention to the
phenomenon. In the U.S., people are allowed to deny the Holocaust,
they're recognized as lunatics, and nobody cares except a few
individuals like Deborah Lipstadt who have made careers out of
exaggerating the problem.<br>
>> <br>
>> Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy
theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste
of time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real
problems in the world.<br>
>> <br>
>> But Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to
deny what Israel has become--of course, only with the help of American
support.<br>
>> <br>
>>> FROM: David Gehrig <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>><br>
>>> TO: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
>>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:37 PM<br>
>>> SUBJECT: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Folks, some thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone
who's studied it for fifteen years. It's going only to peace-discuss.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I think some background would be helpful here.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of neo-Nazi
origins claiming that literally millions of Jews have secretly
collaborated on a global fraud orders of magnitude larger and more
complex than any James Bond villain could even dream of.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Intellectually, it's on par with the folks who think that
NASA and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing. But on top of its
idiocy, it adds a thick, wide, and inescapable layer of antisemitic
wackdoodlism.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Here's what I mean. The Watergate scandal involved under
fifty conspirators, was protected by the most powerful man in the
world, but it still rattled apart in just two years. The conspiracy
theory that Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not five
hundred Jews, not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand Jews, not five
hundred thousand Jews, but five million Jews -- roughly a quarter of
the world's Jewish population -- to stick impeccably to a criminal
script flawlessly for over sixty years. As such, it ascribes to the
Jews an inexplicable and inhuman capacity for criminality of the
largest imaginable dimensions.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> What would you say to someone who tells you that one
quarter of all people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra?
You would rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his bigotry. Yet
this is not that different from what Holocaust deniers claim about the
world's Jews.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to
turn your eyes and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your
own town.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the
topic -- its neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to
repaint itself as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order to
try recruiting on the progressive left, while telling exactly the same
lies. Few on the left have been fooled. But, as we have learned
locally, few is not none.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> David @%<<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
[1]<br>
>> <br>
>> -------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Links:<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
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