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Well said.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/24/12 2:21, David Johnson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:BFEC7C2E893A4B7FB4647023034C1207@johnson8547dac"
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<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span>"
Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories
& 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time
and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real problems in
the world. "</span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><font
face="Arial" size="4"><strong>Norman Finkelstein has written
extensively about this phenomena, that being " The Holocaust Industry
", that has not only made certain people money but has more
importently, as you described David, been used to distract and justify
the nazi like behaviour of the Israeli government.</strong></font></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong></strong></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">In terms of the JFK assasination and the 9/11
attack FACTS, as opposed to theories or governmant cover-ups like the
Bush appointed 9/11 commision and the Warren commission, I would
respectfully disagree.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">Kennedy assasination, M.L. King assasination,
Malcolm X assasination, and the 9/11 attack FACTS should be studied and
discussed along with documented facts of : COINTELPRO, CIA sponsored
coups and assasinations, rigged electons, false flag actions, etc..</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">The importence is two fold ;</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">1) To know what the U.S. government has done in
the past on behalf of the 1 %, so that the American people will know
and hence not believe the lies of weapons of mass destruction, etc.. to
justify military actions and the abuse of civil liberties.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">2) When dealing with any group of criminals like
the U.S, ruling class 1%, one must know their M.O., which will also
allow the American people to know what to expect and hopefully how to
prevent / deal with it in the future.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong></strong></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">Of course since 9/11 2001 the ruling class and
the corporate media has done an extensive propoganda campaign to
convince many people in the U.S. that any accusation ( no matter
how well documented ) of collaboration / misdeeds by the wealthy and
powerful is " conspiracy theory " and hence not true.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">As if the wealthy and the powerful don't
coordinate actions or even talk to each other.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">I do agree David that one should not spend too
much time dwelling on these sort of things, however</font></strong> <strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">to ignore the criminal history and past
practices of the 1 % ruling class is at our own peril.</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong><font
face="Arial" size="4">David Johnson</font></strong></span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span> </span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span><strong></strong></span> </div>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="davegreen84@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">David Green</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 10pt;">
<div><span>The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other
things, regarding the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of
the Palestinians, begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the
present time. It's important, because it's widespread and politically
consequential.</span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span>The
small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated out of all
proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli depredations, as well as
to distract attention from ongoing American-sponsored atrocities around
the world.</span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span>Chomsky
says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by not suppressing
Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries in Europe. Suppression
and illegality only attracts more attention to the phenomenon. In the
U.S., people are allowed to deny the Holocaust, they're recognized as
lunatics, and nobody cares except a few individuals like Deborah
Lipstadt who have made careers out of exaggerating the problem.</span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span>Spending
15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories & 9/11
conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time and a
distraction by anyone who is serious about the real problems in the
world.</span></div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span></span> </div>
<div
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;"><span>But
Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to deny what Israel
has become--of course, only with the help of American support.<var
id="yui-ie-cursor"></var></span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div
style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Gehrig
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org"><david-cu@nukulele.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday,
November 22, 2012 2:37 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial<br>
</font></div>
<br>
Folks, some thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone who's studied it
for fifteen years. It's going only to peace-discuss.<br>
<br>
I think some background would be helpful here.<br>
<br>
Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of neo-Nazi origins claiming
that literally millions of Jews have secretly collaborated on a global
fraud orders of magnitude larger and more complex than any James Bond
villain could even dream of.<br>
<br>
Intellectually, it's on par with the folks who think that NASA and
Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing. But on top of its idiocy, it
adds a thick, wide, and inescapable layer of antisemitic wackdoodlism.<br>
<br>
Here's what I mean. The Watergate scandal involved under fifty
conspirators, was protected by the most powerful man in the world, but
it still rattled apart in just two years. The conspiracy theory that
Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not five hundred Jews,
not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand Jews, not five hundred
thousand Jews, but five million Jews -- roughly a quarter of the
world's Jewish population -- to stick impeccably to a criminal script
flawlessly for over sixty years. As such, it ascribes to the Jews an
inexplicable and inhuman capacity for criminality of the largest
imaginable dimensions.<br>
<br>
What would you say to someone who tells you that one quarter of all
people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra? You would
rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his bigotry. Yet this is
not that different from what Holocaust deniers claim about the world's
Jews.<br>
<br>
It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to turn your eyes
and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your own town.<br>
<br>
If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the topic -- its
neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to repaint itself
as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order to try recruiting on
the progressive left, while telling exactly the same lies. Few on the
left have been fooled. But, as we have learned locally, few is not none.<br>
<br>
David @%<<br>
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