<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    But it's also important to understand that we (US) are not just
    helping the Israelis defend themselves against a dreadful internal
    enemy who wants nothing more than to wipe Israel off the map, which
    is what you'd think from listening to US media.<br>
    <br>
    One comment from my posting of Juan Cole's article: how would we
    feel if rockets were raining down on *us*?   I think that's a good
    question, the kind of thing we often hear, and worth answering
    directly.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/27/12 5:23 PM, C. G. Estabrook
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:FE9F6F9E-6198-49E8-8D06-6A721206B9B6@newsfromneptune.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      We're writing a flyer for US  - not Israeli - citizens. 
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>"The fundamental issue is quite simple: Every U.S. taxpayer
        is responsible for Israeli crimes. They can’t carry them out
        without the decisive military, economic, ideological, and
        diplomatic support of the United States"  <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.zcommunications.org/q-and-a-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky">http://www.zcommunications.org/q-and-a-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky</a>>.
         <br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>On Nov 27, 2012, at 4:13 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">brussel@illinois.edu</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
                What is obvious is that Carl's preferences lie with Ron
                Paul's piece, which exclusively emphasizes U.S.
                responsibility/culpability. Cole's piece exclusively
                emphasizes Israel's responsibility/culpability.
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Both should be emphasized. </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>--mkb</div>
                <div><br>
                  <div>
                    <div>On Nov 27, 2012, at 3:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook
                      wrote:</div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                        -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                        after-white-space; ">
                        If we're looking for a primer on Israel/Gaza, I
                        almost think this would be better:
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/27/how-to-end-the-gaza-tragedy/">http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/27/how-to-end-the-gaza-tragedy/</a></div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Stuart
                              Levy <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>>
                              wrote:</div>
                            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">At
                                AWARE on Sunday we talked about having a
                                flyer for this Saturday's demonstration
                                which talked about Israel/Palestine.<br>
                                <br>
                                Carl had found a good one from Max Ajl,
                                but here's another, from <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html">Juan
                                  Cole on 11/17</a>, which may be a
                                better introduction to people who
                                haven't been paying close attention to
                                the subject.   (See the original article
                                too - there's an interesting map
                                summarizing Palestinian refugee
                                migrations.)<br>
                                <br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html">http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html</a><br>
                                <br>
                                <b>Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on
                                  Gaza</b><br>
                                <br>
                                Posted on 11/17/2012 by Juan<br>
                                <br>
                                1. Israeli hawks represent themselves as
                                engaged in a ‘peace process’ with the
                                Palestinians in which Hamas refuses to
                                join. In fact, Israel has refused to
                                cease colonizing and stealing
                                Palestinian land long enough to engage
                                in fruitful negotiations with them.
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/us-palestinians-israel-settlements-idUSBRE8A50I820121106?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews">Tel
                                  Aviv routinely announces new,
                                  unilateral house-building on the
                                  Palestinian West Bank</a>. There is no
                                peace process. It is an Israeli and
                                American sham. Talking about a peace
                                process is giving cover to Israeli
                                nationalists who are determined to grab
                                everything the Palestinians have and
                                reduce them to penniless refugees
                                (again).<br>
                                <br>
                                2. Actions such as the assault on Gaza
                                can achieve no genuine long-term
                                strategic purpose. They are being
                                launched to ensure that Jewish-Israelis
                                are the first to exploit key resources.
                                Rattling sabers at the Palestinians
                                creates a pretext for further land-grabs
                                and colonies on Palestinian land. That
                                is, the military action against the
                                people of Gaza is a diversion tactic;
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/">the
                                  real goal is Greater Israel, an
                                  assertion of Israeli sovereignty</a>
                                over all the territory once held by the
                                British Mandate of Palestine.<br>
                                <br>
                                3. Israeli hawks represent their war of
                                aggression as in ‘self-defense.’ But the
                                UK Israeli chief rabbi admitted on
                                camera that that
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/16/bbc-apologises-chief-rabbi-jonathan-sacks-gaza">the
                                  Gaza attack actually ‘had something to
                                  do with Iran.’</a><br>
                                <br>
                                4. Israeli hawks demonize the
                                Palestinians of Gaza as “bad neighbors”
                                who don’t accept Israel. But 40% of the
                                people in Gaza are refugees, mostly
                                living in refugee camps, from families
                                in pre-1948 Palestine that had lived
                                there for millennia.<br>
                                <br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://suite101.com/article/gaza-refugee-camps-1948-present-a211374">They
                                  were expelled from what is now Israel
                                  in the 1948 Zionist ethnic cleansing
                                  campaign</a>. Israelis are now living
                                in their homes and farming their land,
                                and they were never paid any reparations
                                for the crimes done to them. <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR26/FMR2624.pdf">
                                  [pdf] “Israel’s failure to provide
                                  reparations to Palestinian refugees
                                  over the past six decades is in
                                  blatant violation of international
                                  law.”</a> Israel does not accept
                                Palestine’s right to exist, even though
                                it is constantly demanding that
                                everyone, including the displaced and
                                occupied Palestinians, recognize
                                Israel’s right to exist.<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                5. Israeli hawks and their American
                                clones depict Gaza as a foreign, hostile
                                state with which Israel is at war. In
                                fact,
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CG8QFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenaccess.leidenuniv.nl%2Fbitstream%2F1887%2F13159%2F2%2FWhat%2BConstitutes%2BOccupation.pdf&ei=KDenUNOoMM6EygHbwYHYAQ&usg=AFQjCNFEJ_8IvIn6alResmt0iVO6Q-hFrg&sig2=IaQzbH1IV5V3KlnaR9F5Jw&cad=rja">the
                                  Gaza strip is a small territory of 1.7
                                  million people militarily occupied by
                                  Israel</a> (something in which the UN
                                and other international bodies concur).
                                Israelis do not allow it to have a port
                                or airport, nor to export most of what
                                it produces. Palestinians cannot work
                                about a third of its land, which is
                                reserved by Israel as a security buffer.
                                As an occupied territory, it is covered
                                by the Hague Regulations of 1907 and the
                                Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 on the
                                treatment of occupied populations by
                                their military occupier. Indiscriminate
                                bombing of occupied territories by the
                                occupier is clearly illegal in
                                international law.<br>
                                <br>
                                6. Israeli hawks see themselves as
                                innocent victims of bewildering
                                Palestinian rage from Gaza. But Israel
                                not only has kept Palestinians of Gaza
                                in the world’s largest outdoor
                                penitentiary, they have them under
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.juancole.com/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed.html">an
                                  illegal blockade</a> that for some
                                years aimed at limiting their nutrition
                                without altogether starving them to
                                death. I wrote earlier:<br>
                                <br>
                                “The <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ibtimes.com/israels-blockade-gaza-puts-palestinian-childrens-health-risk-report-702821">food
                                  blockade had real effects. About ten
                                  percent of Palestinian children in
                                  Gaza under 5</a> have had their growth
                                stunted by malnutrition. A recent
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.map-uk.org/files/1052_gaza_health_report_web_version.pdf">report
                                  [pdf] by Save the Children and Medical
                                  Aid for Palestinians found that</a>,
                                in addition, anemia is widespread,
                                affecting over two-thirds of infants,
                                58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and over
                                a third of pregnant mothers. “<br>
                                <br>
                                If any foreign power surrounded Israel,
                                destroyed Haifa port and Tel Aviv
                                airport, and prevented Israeli exports
                                from being exported, what do you think
                                Israelis would do? Oh, that’s right, it
                                is rude to see both Palestinians and
                                Israelis as equal human beings.<br>
                                <br>
                                7. Israeli hawks demonize the
                                Palestinian residents of Gaza as
                                followers of Hamas, a party-militia of
                                the Muslim religious right. But half of
                                Palestinians in Gaza are minors, who
                                never voted for Hamas and cannot be held
                                collectively responsible for that party.<br>
                                <br>
                                8. Israeli hawks justify their
                                aggression on the Palestinians on
                                grounds of self-defense. But Israel is a
                                country of 7.5 million people with
                                tanks, armored vehicles, artillery,
                                helicopter gunships and F-16s and F-18s,
                                plus 400 nuclear warheads. Gaza is a
                                small occupied territory of 1.7 million
                                which has no heavy weaponry, just some
                                old guns and some largely ineffectual
                                rockets. (Israelis cite hundreds of
                                rockets fired into Israel from Gaza in
                                2012; but until Israel’s recent attack
                                they had killed not a single Israeli,
                                though they did wound a few last March
                                when fighting between Palestinians and
                                Israelis escalated.) Gaza is a threat to
                                Israel the way the Transkei Bantustan
                                was a threat to Apartheid South Africa.
                                As for genuine asymmetrical threats from
                                Gaza to Israel, they could be dealt with
                                by giving the Palestinians a state and
                                ceasing the blockade imposed on them, or
                                in the worst case scenario
                                counter-terrorism targeted at terrorists
                                rather than indiscriminate bombing
                                campaigns.<br>
                                <br>
                                9. Israeli hawks maintain that they were
                                provoked into the attack. <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-peace-activist-hamas-leader-jabari-killed-amid-talks-on-long-term-truce.premium-1.478085">But
                                  actually Ahmad Jabari, the Hamas
                                  leader the Israelis assassinated
                                  earlier this week, had been engaged in
                                  talks with the Israelis about a truce</a>.
                                Assassinations achieved by the ruse of
                                openness to peace talks are guarantees
                                of no further peace talks.<br>
                                <br>
                                10. Although most American media is a
                                cheering section for the Likud Party, <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/">in
                                  fact the world is increasingly done
                                  out with Israel’s aggressiveness</a>.
                                Boycotts and sanctions will likely grow
                                over time, leaving Israeli hawks with a
                                deficit…<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                              </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                              Peace-discuss mailing list<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Peace-discuss mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>