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Of course, I respectfully disagree. Several counties<br>
in southern Illinois wanted to secede and indeed one did (Williamson).<br>
<br>
There were no slaves at all in Williamson county.<br>
<br>
What they were rejecting was federal government tyranny.<br>
<br>
Indeed it was a power struggle, whether I will decide myself how I
should live<br>
my life, or whether I should let some Yankee a thousand miles away
dictate to me<br>
how I should live my life.<br>
<br>
Bringing race in to the equation is a dirty trick, equivalent to
throwing sand <br>
in the bull's eyes when caught in a dilemma.<br>
<br>
The matter of state's rights and secession is far from settled.<br>
<br>
The ultimate break-up and dissolution of the Union is a lofty goal<br>
but it is a very worthwhile one that would solve so many of the world's<br>
problems. Maybe complete destruction of the federal government is a bit<br>
radical. Just cutting off some of its tentacles would be<br>
sufficient.<br>
<br>
It seems that the purpose of the war was for the Northern elites <br>
(what you call the 0.01%) to gain control over everybody else.<br>
<br>
Hardly any dog would consume the poison of authoritarian government if<br>
it were not mixed with the meat of the promise of "social good".<br>
<br>
Anarchism seems to be the ultimate anti-war position, and although<br>
secession aint exactly anarchism per se, secession is certainly a<br>
step in the right direction.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/23/12 22:25, David Green wrote<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1356272709.94620.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div><span>Whatever the advisability of fighting a war to free the
slaves, or whether it was indeed fought for that purpose, the southern
elites certainly seceded in order to keep their control over slaves
(and poor whites) intact.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>DG</span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div
style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> ""E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森""
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org"><ewj@pigsqq.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Peace-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net"><peace-discuss@anti-war.net></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday,
December 23, 2012 7:32 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Peace-discuss] hasta la vista, baby.<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div id="yiv126943396">
<div>
<h3 style="margin: 6pt 0in;">It seems far from settled.<br>
</h3>
<h3 style="margin: 6pt 0in;"><font face="Arial">Parting Company</font></h3>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 6pt;" class="yiv126943396MsoNormal"><font
face="Arial" size="2">Over 150 years ago, the Northern Democratic and
Republican
parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace. Just about every
major Northern newspaper editorialized in favor of the South's right to
secede. New York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): "If tyranny and despotism
justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not
justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal
Union in 1861." Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19, 1861<i>): "An attempt to
subjugate the seceded States, even if successful, could produce nothing
but evil – evil unmitigated in character and appalling in content."</i>
The New York Times (March 21, 1861): "There is growing sentiment
throughout the North in favor of letting the Gulf States go."</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 6pt;" class="yiv126943396MsoNormal"><font
face="Arial" size="2">There's more evidence seen at the time our
Constitution was
ratified. The ratification documents of Virginia, New York and Rhode
Island explicitly said that they held the right to resume powers
delegated, should the federal government become abusive of those
powers. The Constitution would have never been ratified if states
thought that they could not maintain their sovereignty.</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 6pt;" class="yiv126943396MsoNormal"><font
face="Arial" size="2">The War of 1861 settled the issue of secession
through brute
force that cost 600,000 American lives. Americans celebrate Abraham
Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, but H.L. Mencken correctly evaluated the
speech, "It is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense." Lincoln said that
the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of self-determination
– that government of the people, by the people, for the people should
not perish from the earth." Mencken says: "It is difficult to imagine
anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought
against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the
right of people to govern themselves."</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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