<div>and why is it that your e-mail gets returned undeliverable - are you unwilling to stand accountable for your tirades - I just got undeliverable message on message to you from <a href="http://microsoft.com" target="_blank">microsoft.com</a> because you probably use a forged e-mail address. Don't ever call me out by name - and 70% of America does not support your position - you tell me how to take out people who are sworn to kill you, me and our families and then I might agree with you on drones - but until you can find a workable solution, I prefer one that works on getting those who make it their life's work to recruit and train others to kill us!<br>
</div><div><b><font color="#000066" size="3" face="Arial"><a href="http://mail.microsoft.com/" target="_blank">mail.microsoft.com</a> rejected your message to the following email addresses:</font></b></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><p>
<a href="mailto:dlj725@microsoft.com" target="_blank">David Johnson (dlj725@microsoft.com)</a><br><b></b></p><p><b><a href="http://mail.microsoft.com/" target="_blank">mail.microsoft.com</a> gave this error:<br>User unknown </b></p>
</font><p><br></p></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 4:57 AM, David Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dlj725@microsoft.com" target="_blank">dlj725@microsoft.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">"The hard left’s
position is ultimately simple: America is bad, our troops are monsters and
attacks on our known enemies are criminal. And drones are hateful because they
not only make our military more effective, but also because they spare the
innocent: For leftists, it’s better if we kill more civilians, since that
reinforces their dogma."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u>Typical
corporate fascist bullshit !</u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u>America is
not bad, it is the 1% muderous ruling class that is evil and destroying our
country , and idiots like you who believe their propoganda are part of the
problem as well. </u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u>You are a
minority Helbig, close to 70 % of the American people oppose these continued
wars, so basicly you are saying that 70 % of the American people " hate America
".</u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u>If that is
the case, you are an even bigger idiot than I thought !</u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u>I am and
every decent citizen world-wide are judges in an international court of law, and
I hope i live to see the day when all who have caused the needless deaths and
suffering for the last 12 years of innocent civilians and the unnecessary
; death, dismemberment, and psychological trauma of all American
soldiers who were sent to fight a war OF terror based on LIES, are brought
in chains to an international Nurenberg like tribunal !</u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">David
Johnson</span></p></font></div>
<div style="font:10pt/normal arial;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">----- Original Message -----
<div style="background:rgb(228,228,228)"><b>From:</b> <a title="rwhelbig@gmail.com" href="mailto:rwhelbig@gmail.com" target="_blank">Roger Helbig</a>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="kmedina67@gmail.com" href="mailto:kmedina67@gmail.com" target="_blank">Karen Medina</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">Peace-discuss</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 08, 2013 6:06 AM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] drones and the human cost of
war</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>just saw this - he writes better than me - sorry that he works for Fox, but
he still makes sense despite my strong bias against Fox thanks to my watching
(paid admission both times) Outfoxed twice!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">16) Drone Cold
Truth--LTC Ralph Peters, USA (Ret.) </span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">New York
Post</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">January 7, 2013
</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Pg.
19</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Drone Cold
Truth</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Sparing
innocents, not terrorists</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">By Ralph
Peters</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">The inexhaustible
America-haters on our domestic left are absolutely correct that drones —
unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs — are morally ambiguous weapons. All weapons
of war are morally ambiguous, as are even “just wars” waged for purely defensive
purposes. All wars violate a universal commandment: Thou shalt not
kill.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">But in this
imperfect world, we sometimes must kill if we are to survive. In developed
societies (such as our own) that strive toward moral behavior, killing enemies
in a conflict is regulated by laws, conventions and ethics. At times, as in the
city bombings of World War II, we cast our strictures aside in a desperate hour.
But we really do our best to spare the innocent.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Warfare is
imprecise, though, shaped by confusion and emotion as much as by plans. It’s
unlikely that humans will ever eliminate war or find a way to wage it so
“cleanly” that every noncombatant will be safe.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">But — contrary to
the reflexive claims of the left — UAVs mark a significant in sparing the
innocent: morally ambiguous still, but less so than an artillery shell or a
cruise missile.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Never before has
a state been able to target its deadly enemies with such precision. And contrary
to one of the countless myths of the left, we’re trigger-happy. Under rules
adopted in the Bush years and broadly retained now, targets must be screened and
approved at multiple levels in a process so rigorous that, frequently, our
enemies escape. It’s hard to see how we could fight more ethically.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Instead of
bombing a city or invading yet another country where terrorists have found
refuge, pinpoint strikes kill terrorist chieftains and their immediate adherents
(or, at worst, their willing hosts) while sparing the family next door. But our
critics, foreign and domestic, hold us to an impossible standard, questioning
whether we have the right to kill enemies proud of their resolve to murder us.
Those same critics revel in the rare drone strikes that go awry as evidence of
our alleged savagery.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">But there will
always be mistakes in war, because war is waged by human beings, even if they
command brilliant machines (which themselves may err). What should be deemed
remarkable is how few innocents have become casualties in proportion to the
number of confirmed terrorists eliminated. That ratio is without precedent in
warfare.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">What should
trouble all of us — especially those of genuine conscience on the left — is the
hard left’s willful blindness to the atrocities of the terrorists we
hunt.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">These men
slaughter teachers, doctors and aid workers, anonymous shoppers in the
marketplace and elementary-school students, especially girls. (In Islamist
terror’s homelands, Newtown is everywhere.)</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Yet leftists
romanticize America’s enemies, excusing their sins while exaggerating our
missteps. And when other accusations fall short, they trot out the N-word of
security affairs, “assassination,” equating terrorist chieftains with
JFK.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">The hard left’s
position is ultimately simple: America is bad, our troops are monsters and
attacks on our known enemies are criminal. And drones are hateful because they
not only make our military more effective, but also because they spare the
innocent: For leftists, it’s better if we kill more civilians, since that
reinforces their dogma.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">It’s also
interesting that, while the left personalized every action of President George
W. Bush, President Obama largely gets a pass, as if he’s being duped by
bloodthirsty generals. But Obama has learned to stop worrying and love that
drone: For him, UAVs are effective, politically convenient, diplomatically
defensible and (given the cost of ground interventions) cheap.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Yes, there are
moral questions. There always will be in warfare. Practical issues arise, as
well, such as the limits of sovereignty in a world of porous borders. And, yes,
there are legal and ethical matters that remain unresolved.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">But there’s one
more point that the left and its fellow travelers in the commentariat get wrong:
their claim that drone strikes only create more terrorists.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Well, no. Drone
attacks deprive terror organizations of experienced leaders and fanatical
executors. And a village kid mad that his goat ran away from the blast doesn’t
automatically turn into a suicide bomber.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Do drone strikes
excite anger? You bet: not least, among the terrorists and their supporters
(including sympathizers here at home). For the rest of us, terrorists slain by
UAVs mean soldiers and Marines come home alive — and a safer world.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-size:13.5pt">Ralph Peters is
Fox News’ strategic analyst and a retired US Army
officer.</span><br><br></p></div></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Roger Helbig <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rwhelbig@gmail.com" target="_blank">rwhelbig@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">since when are you a judge in an international court of law
- maybe if we had had armed drones in 2000, Bin Laden would have been taken
out and 9/11 would not have happened. You and most of the so-called
peace establishment believe the propagandists and ignore reality.
<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Karen Medina <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kmedina67@gmail.com" target="_blank">kmedina67@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">> But the US has no right to wage war in the first
place.<br><br>That is, of course, very true. But it is the hard to convince
enough<br>people of
this.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br>
<p>
<hr>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>