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<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>Well,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>How " silly " was attempting to impeach Clinton
for a blow job ?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>As absurd as that was it was still
attempted.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>In this case with Obama, it is constitutionally
justified.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>David J.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">Robert Naiman</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=galliher@illinois.edu
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">Carl G. Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:58 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] No U.S. Drone Strikes in Mali Without
Congressional Approval</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>The discussion became silly when you brought up impeachment,
Carl. That's my point. I didn't make it any more silly than you already made it.
I made a practical political demand: try to block the drone war from being
extended to Mali. You changed the subject to silliness.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">You're getting silly, Bob.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Calling on Congress to exercise the responsibilities assigned to it by
the Constitution - impeaching our criminous chief magistrate - would seen
easier than, say, calling on Congress expressly to go against the
Constitution, e.g., by abolishing slavery. (The current film, introduced by
another criminous executive at an awards show last week, draws the parallel of
then and now.) The choices are up to us. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world <BR>Like a
Colossus, and we petty men <BR>Walk under his huge legs and peep
about <BR>To find ourselves dishonourable graves. <BR>Men at some
time are masters
of their fates: <BR>The fault, dear Brutus, is
not in our stars - nor in our foundational law - <BR>But in ourselves,
that we are underlings.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:47 PM, Robert Naiman <<A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Oh, but the Constitution *does* provide for me to
receive a million dollars. Congress can vote to give me a million dollars
anytime it wants, just as it can vote to impeach the President anytime it
wants. The two things are about equally likely to happen, so if I'm going to
advocate for things that have no chance of happening, I might as well
advocate for the one that would give me greater personal enjoyment.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Carl G. Estabrook
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">The Constitution doesn't provide for
your receiving a million dollars.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It does provide for the impeachment and removal from office of chief
executives guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, as Obama obviously
is.
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It's wrong to surrender to those congressional representatives who
refuse to follow the law, instead of opposing them. </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 16, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Robert Naiman <<A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Why not demand that Congress give me a trillion
dollars? I mean, as long as we're stipulating that objective reality is
unimportant as a guide to action.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Not extending the drone war to Mali is a plausible ask. It's a
crime that hasn't been committed yet. Preventing it is a winnable
fight.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Carl G.
Estabrook <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Why not demand Congress impeach
Obama for violating the Constitution & international law, &
murder?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That would do a s much good, and perhaps more. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 16, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Robert Naiman <<A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>---------- Forwarded message ----------<BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>From: <B class=gmail_sendername>Just Foreign
Policy</B> <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:info@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>info@justforeignpolicy.org</A>></SPAN><BR>Date:
Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:09 PM<BR>Subject: No U.S. Drone Strikes in
Mali Without Congressional Approval<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
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<P>Dear Robert,</P>
<DIV
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<P><B>Tell Congress to insist the Administration obtain explicit
Congressional authorization before conducting drone strikes in
Mali.<BR></B></P>
<H2 style="COLOR: #a02522"><A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=P77yi6TJfW6O4Q46QjfOCtzaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>Take Action</A></H2>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<P>France has undertaken a major military campaign in Mali. <B>U.S.
officials are talking about the possibility of supporting the French
military campaign with U.S. drone strikes.</B><BR><BR>Congress
hasn't authorized US military intervention in Mali. In particular,
<B>Congress hasn't authorized U.S. drone strikes in
Mali.</B><BR><BR><B>Urge your Representative and Senators to
publicly insist that the Administration obtain explicit
Congressional authorization before conducting drone strikes in
Mali.</B><BR><BR><B><A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=eUlT3lInUmnnmhE8x1tSatzaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/mali-drones</A></B><BR><BR>The
<I>Washington Post</I> reports: [1]</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>[A senior U.S.] official said contingency plans for
the use of armed drones were already in place and are being
reevaluated.</B></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>Without explicit Congressional authorization, the only U.S. legal
authority the Administration could claim for conducting drone
strikes in Mali is the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military
Force passed after the September 11 attacks. This is the legal
authority the Administration has invoked for conducting drone
strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. The invocation of the 2001
AUMF to justify drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia is
already very controversial. The invocation of the 2001 AUMF to
justify drone strikes in Mali should be even more controversial.
<BR><BR>Indeed, on November 1, the <I>Washington Post</I> editorial
board, which supports the drone strike policy overall, and believes
that US drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen are legal overall,
wrote: [2]</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>The <I>Post</I>’s reporting suggests that the
administration is … contemplating the use of drones in more
countries where jihadist forces are active, including Libya and
Mali. This raises new legal and political quandaries. <B>The
further — in geography, time and organizational connection — that
the drone war advances from the original al-Qaeda target in
Afghanistan, the less validity it has under the 2001 congressional
authorization … most of the world is unlikely to accept an
argument that the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks justify drone strikes
more than a decade later in Northern Africa.</B></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>The <I>Washington Post</I> now notes that U.S. support for
France's military campaign could "<B>test U.S. legal
boundaries</B>"; that direct U.S. military aid to Mali is
"<B>forbidden under U.S. law because the weak rump government there
seized power in a coup</B>"; and that some fighters who may be
targeted by France are "<B>longtime foes of the Malian government
and pose no direct threat to U.S. interests</B>" [3] - thus, they
have nothing to do with the September 11 attack and therefore the
2001 AUMF can't be invoked to justify attacking them. <BR><BR>If the
Administration conducts drone strikes in Mali without new
Congressional authorization, it would be a major setback both for
efforts to bring accountability and transparency to the drone strike
program and to efforts to protect Congressional authority to decide
when the United States goes to war. We have a responsibility to try
to draw a line in the sand in front of expansion of the drone war to
Mali.<BR><BR><B>Urge your Representative and Senators to speak
up.</B><BR><BR><B><A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=3FUFdlSISAzPzlByY9Mxk9zaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/mali-drones</A></B><BR><BR>Thank
you for all you do to help bring about a more just foreign
policy,<BR><BR>Robert Naiman, Chelsea Mozen, Sarah Burns and Megan
Iorio<BR>Just Foreign Policy<BR><BR><B>Please support our work.
Donate for a Just Foreign Policy.</B><BR><A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=SwZpe5QJZe61uFyQIo%2FePNzaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate</A><BR><BR>References:<BR><BR>1.
"U.S. weighs military support for France’s campaign against Mali
militants," Anne Gearan, Karen DeYoung and Craig Whitlock,
Washington Post, January 15, 2013 <A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=xq6v%2FTBuoGpYXBI8S85%2F7tzaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-weighs-military-support-for-frances-campaign-against-mali-militants/2013/01/15/a071db40-5f4d-11e2-b05a-605528f6b712_story.html</A><BR>2.
"Pulling the U.S. drone war out of the shadows," Editorial,
Washington Post, November 1, 2012, <A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=GHnTdIEtmFf2xzui1SY%2FmDJhRzAi1y7H"
target=_blank>http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-01/opinions/35503416_1_drone-attacks-drone-strikes-qaeda</A><BR>3.
"U.S. weighs military support for France’s campaign against Mali
militants," Anne Gearan, Karen DeYoung and Craig Whitlock,
Washington Post, January 15, 2013 <A
href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=aSQHJvMm%2F78pndv9j9ngmtzaJIMQCl9N"
target=_blank>http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-weighs-military-support-for-frances-campaign-against-mali-militants/2013/01/15/a071db40-5f4d-11e2-b05a-605528f6b712_story.html</A></P>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just
Foreign Policy<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss
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<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign
Policy<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
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<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign
Policy<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
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<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign
Policy<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR>
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