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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>It's good information but it is too much
information for a flyer.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>In my opinion, it would be better to have less
information and larger font, maybe even a photo or graphic, and then an AWARE
web-site address for more detailed info.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Practice answers to questions or statements from
people would be good as well.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=galliher@illinois.edu href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">Carl G.
Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=stuartnlevy@gmail.com
href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">Stuart Levy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@anti-war.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">Peace Discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] AWARE -
Sat's demo (& flyer,for re-view) and Sunday's meeting at White Horse</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Nice work.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The flyer provides practically the only serious information about the war
in town - certainly not the N-G or radio/TV news.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As the administration works desperately to distract attention from its
expanding war, we should redouble our efforts to publicize it. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And we should work to find fora in which to answer comments like the ones
posed here. A report on the demo & the comments on AOTA is a place to
start.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--CGE</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 3, 2013, at 10:32 AM, Stuart Levy <<A
href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">First: yes we do plan to meet at the
White Horse bar again.<BR><BR>Yesterday's demonstration - well I see Karen
just wrote about it too. Thanks to everybody!<BR><BR>I thought the
most interesting comment was from a woman who said, "Everybody's against war
- no one goes to war because they *want* to." As if war were one of
those winds that blows nobody good. I offered some examples of people
who might see war as a great way to promote their own
interests.<BR><BR>Maybe hers is a common way of thinking - one we should
keep directly confronting as we talk about war.<BR><BR>No ground hogs came
by, but our new mascot mouse -- hardly the size of the last joint of your
thumb -- was awfully cute. Scrabbling hard for seeds in the austerity
of winter.<BR><BR>We handed out a bunch of flyers, using fragments from
Glenn Greenwald's and Seumas Milne's recent Guardian articles on Mali and
the cycle of endless war. Sorry these weren't passed around in
advance, but please see attached.<BR><BR><BR>-------<BR><BR><BR><BR>
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<P align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia'; FONT-SIZE: 23pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Mali?
Libya? The Phillippines? Somalia?<BR>Yemen? Iraq? Afghanistan?
Pakistan?<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia'; FONT-SIZE: 24pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Haven't we
been here before? </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 15pt">(excerpts
below from Glenn Greenwald writing in The Guardian, Jan 14th </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; VERTICAL-ALIGN: 4pt">1</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 15pt">)</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">French war
planes bomb Mali, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">there is one simple
statistic that provides the key context: </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">this west
African nation of 15 million people is the eighth country in which western
powers - over the last four years alone - have bombed and killed Muslims -
after Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and the Philippines
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(that does not
count the numerous lethal tyrannies propped up by the west in that region).
For obvious reasons, the rhetoric that the west is not at war with the
Islamic world grows increasingly hollow with each new expansion of this
militarism. But within this new massive bombing campaign, one finds most of
the vital lessons about western intervention that, typically, are ignored.
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">First,
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">as this NY
Times' account makes clear, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">much of the
instability in Mali is the direct result of Nato's intervention in Libya.
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">[...] As Owen
Jones wrote in an excellent column in the Independent: </SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'TimesNewRomanPSMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">“This
intervention is itself the consequence of another. The Libyan war is
frequently touted as a success story for liberal interventionism. Yet the
toppling of Muammar Gaddafi's dictatorship had consequences that Western
intelligence services probably never even bothered to imagine. Tuaregs –
who traditionally hailed from northern Mali – made up a large portion of
his army. When Gaddafi was ejected from power, they returned to their
homeland: sometimes forcibly so as black Africans came under attack in
post-Gaddafi Libya, an uncomfortable fact largely ignored by the Western
media. . . . [T]he Libyan war was seen as a success . . . and here we are
now engaging with its catastrophic blowback.” </SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Over and
over, western intervention ends up - whether by ineptitude or design -
sowing the seeds of further intervention. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Given the massive
instability still plaguing Libya as well as enduring anger over the Benghazi
attack, how long will it be before we hear that bombing and invasions in
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">that
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">country are -
once again - necessary to combat the empowered "Islamist" forces there:
forces empowered as a result of the Nato overthrow of that country's
government? </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Second, the
overthrow of the Malian government was enabled by US-trained-and- armed
soldiers who defected. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">From the NYT: “commanders
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'TimesNewRomanPSMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">of
this nation's elite army units, the fruit of years of careful American
training, defected when they were needed most — taking troops, guns, trucks
and their newfound skills to the enemy in the heat of battle, according to
senior Malian military officials.” </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Then: </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 13pt">“an </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'TimesNewRomanPS'; FONT-SIZE: 13pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">American-trained
officer overthrew Mali's elected government, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'TimesNewRomanPSMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">setting the stage
for more than half of the country to fall into the hands of Islamic
extremists.” [...] </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Third,
western bombing of Muslims in yet another country will obviously provoke
even more anti-western sentiment, the fuel of terrorism. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Already, as the Guardian
reports, French fighter jets in Mali have killed "at least 11 civilians
including three children". France's long history of colonialization in Mali
only exacerbates the inevitable anger. In December, after the UN Security
Council authorized the intervention in Mali, Amnesty International's
resea</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">rcher on
West Africa, Salvatore Saguès, warned: "An international armed intervention
is likely to increase the scale of human rights violations we are already
seeing in this conflict." ... </SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Indeed, at the same
time that the French are now killing civilians in Mali, a joint French-US
raid in Somalia caused the deaths of "at least eight civilians, including
two women and two children". </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">To believe
that the US and its allies can just continue to go around the world, in
country after country, and bomb and kill innocent people - Muslims - and not
be targeted with "terrorist" attacks is, for obvious reasons, lunacy.
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Fourth,
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">for all the
self-flattering rhetoric that western democracies love to apply to
themselves, it is extraordinary how these wars are waged without any
pretense of democratic process. [...] </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">The Obama
administration has, of course, draped its entire drone and global
assassination campaign in an impenetrable cloth of secrecy, ensuring it
remains beyond the scrutinizing reach of media outlets, courts, and its own
citizens. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The
US and its western allies do not merely wage endless war aimed invariably at
Muslims. They do so in virtually complete secrecy, without any transparency
or accountability. Meet the western "democracies". </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Finally,
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">the propaganda
used to justify all of this is depressingly common yet wildly effective.
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Any western
government that wants to bomb Muslims simply slaps the label of "terrorists"
on them, and any real debate or critical assessment instantly ends before it
can even begin. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">[...] There is no doubt that
the Malian rebels have engaged in all sorts of heinous atrocities
("amputations, flogging, and stoning to death for those who oppose their
interpretation of Islam"), but so, too, have Malian government forces -
including, as Amnesty chronicled, "arresting, torturing and killing Tuareg
people apparently only on ethnic ground." As Jones aptly warns: "don't
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">fall for a
narrative so often pushed by the Western media: a perverse
oversimplification of good fighting evil, just as we have seen imposed on
Syria's brutal civil war." </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">[...] </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">(and, from
a Jan 22nd article by Seumas Milne, also in The Guardian2) </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">[...] </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">All this is
anyway about a good deal more than terrorism. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Underlying the growing
western military involvement in Africa – from the spread of American bases
under the US Africa Command to France's resumption of its post-colonial
habit of routine armed intervention – is </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">a struggle
for resources and strategic control, in the face of China's expanding
economic role in the continent. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">In north and west Africa,
that's not just about oil and gas, but also uranium in countries like Niger
– and Mali. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Terrorism
has long since become a catch-all cover for legitimizing aggressive war.
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">[1] </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/mali-france-bombing-intervention-libya">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/mali-france-bombing-intervention-libya</A><BR>[2]
<A
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/22/mali-fastest-blowback-war-on-terror/">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/22/mali-fastest-blowback-war-on-terror/</A>
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">It
doesn't have to be this way. Let your elected representatives know you
oppose the pattern of endless intervention and war. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In this area: </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">US Rep.
Rodney Davis </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(R
IL-13), </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(202)
224-3121, and </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">US
Senators Richard Durbin </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(D-IL) </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(202) 224-2152, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">and </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700">Mark
Kirk </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(R-IL)
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">(202) 224-2854.
</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This flyer comes
from AWARE, the Anti-War, Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana – on
Facebook at: </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700"><A
href="http://on.fb.me/WHYaje">http://on.fb.me/WHYaje</A>
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ArialMT'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Watch our
weekly Urbana Public TV (channel 6) program, “AWARE on the Air”, Tuesdays at
10PM – or join us in the Urbana City Council Chambers for the live
unrehearsed recordings at noon Tuesdays. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Meetings? 5PM Sunday
evenings. Write us at </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-WEIGHT: 700"><A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:aware@anti-war.net">aware@anti-war.net</A> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">for more info.
</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
class=section></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN><flyer2013-02-02-greenwald+milne.pdf></SPAN>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
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