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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=meberry68@hotmail.com href="mailto:meberry68@hotmail.com">VN Gelis</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com">socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 04, 2013 4:36 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: [socialistdiscussion] Perspectives for
Egypt</DIV></DIV>
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<P>
<DIV dir=ltr>The Brotherhood was the only organised force after 40 years
dictatorship for Mubarak, hence it was inevitable they would come to power. But
trying to outdo Mubarak in authoritarianism whilst being a minority govt (only
13 million voted for them) whilst 22 million signed a protest through their
national security cards against Morsi implies that after he was defeated on the
constitutional amendments by popular protests he was a busted flush.<BR><BR>The
size of these protests surpassing on accounts I have seen the anti-Mubarak
protests implies that the army forced his removal to ensure survival of the
state machine,in other words this was a progressive development not a coup
d'etat as presented by the mass media and Morsi's followers. Who said the people
cant remove elected presidents? The media in Greece has gone overboard to defend
Morsi, and we know why. It was the protests against Mubarak that restored the
confidence to the people this side of the Meditterean and they demonstrated in
squares for two months solid against Papandreous praetorian guards eventually
bringing him down. The ruling class of Egypt is weak and the army runs the show
but the reasons the people are on the streets are more to do with bread,
education and freedom/justice and until those demands are met they will continue
to protest until a leadership is found/created to meet those demands.<BR><BR>The
Brotherhood was based on socially conservative layers (shopkeepers, preachers
etc) whilst the mass of urban unemployed and the factory workers aren't
necessarily religious but have secular traditions. The army will eventually
split if it doesn't meet some of the demands of the masses and the masses need
to get armed to enforce their just demandsiimposing their will on society. These
events will instill a new confidence in the battles in Turkey, Bulgaria, Brazil
and hopefully Greece...<BR><BR>VN<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
To: socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com<BR>From:
stephenmorgan@skynet.be<BR>Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 19:54:16 +0200<BR>Subject: Re:
[socialistdiscussion] Perspectives for Egypt<BR><BR><SPAN> </SPAN>
<DIV id=ecxygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=ecxygrp-msg>
<DIV id=ecxygrp-text><BR>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>With regards to Mahalla, I found this on the Egypt
Independent paper <A
href="http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/mahalla-edge-anti-morsy-protests"
target=_blank>http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/mahalla-edge-anti-morsy-protests</A> But
it's a week old.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>Key points
</SPAN><BR><SPAN>"In Mahalla, where protesters defied Mubarak repeatedly in the
years leading to the 2011 uprising, workers and activists appear confident that
these are Morsy's last days in office.</SPAN><BR><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>"We
will go out every day until we remove him," said Jihan Melawi, 29, one of
several hundred workers who streamed out of the city's biggest textile factory
on Tuesday to march against Morsy. "Out! Out! Out!" they
chanted.</SPAN><BR><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>Anger has spilled into violence. The
entrance to the Muslim Brotherhood's local party office was firebombed this
week.</SPAN><BR><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>The grievances go beyond the <A
href="http://www.reuters.com/finance/economy?lc=int_mb_1001"
target=_blank>economy</A></SPAN>. Morsy's decision to appoint a member of his
group as the provincial governor set off clashes in which a dozen people were
injured. The complaint was that this was part of a Brotherhood grab for
permanent power.<BR><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>"We had hope, but now I regret
voting for them because of the promises that were not met," said Ahmed Helmi,
38, a worker at a Mahalla textile factory. "We will go out on June 30 to find a
solution for this farce. The first priorities are income and security: we can't
go out without fear of getting mugged."</SPAN><BR><SPAN>HOWEVER The
contradictions in the situation are clear in Mahalla also, Further in the
report,</SPAN><BR><SPAN><SPAN id=ecxarticleText>"Mahalla, which lies in the Nile
Delta north of Cairo, had long been a stronghold of Brotherhood support. Morsy
launched his presidential election campaign from the city's sports stadium last
year. But afterwards more local residents voted for Mubarak's last prime
minister, Ahmed Shafik, than for Morsy, pointing to the group's faltering
political fortunes."</SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN> <BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>best regards,<BR>Stephen Morgan,<BR>email: <A
href="mailto:stephenmorgan@skynet.be">stephenmorgan@skynet.be</A><BR>tel: 32
0484 026 300</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=1999wildcat@gmail.com href="mailto:1999wildcat@gmail.com">John
Reimann</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:socialistdiscussion@yahoogroups.com">socialist discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 03, 2013 3:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [socialistdiscussion]
Perspectives for Egypt</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN> </SPAN>
<DIV id=ecxygrp-text><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr>I think the situation is an absolutely classical case of
bonepartism. They cannot rule by bourgeois democratic means. My strongest
suspicion is that there are illusions in a "strong man", or in this case
possibly in "strong (military) men". These illusions will be shattered, as Dan
implies. What we don't know, and I'd like to find out, is what is happening in
the new unions and also in Mahalla - the powerful industrial workers' center,
where they declared their "independence" some time back.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Dan <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:dan.armstronguk@yahoo.co.uk"
target=_blank>dan.armstronguk@yahoo.co.uk</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid" class=ecxgmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV><SPAN> </SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On this day of reckoning when the ultimatum from the army chiefs runs
out, there was a report that the support for Mursi and the Muslim
Brotherhood has slumped from over a claimed 50 per cent to just 24 per cent.
Unemployment, rising prices for necessities and petrol, repressive measures
against liberal culture, attacks on music clubs all combine to alienate
disillusioned former fans of Mursi and inflame and unite the existing
opposition forces which are now at their highest point, exceeding even the
events of the overthrow of Mubarak.<BR><BR>The military will be well aware
of the declining support for the islamists; if Mursi remains hardline, it
may be expected that a series of simple military actions will be carried
through, a curfew, ban on assembly and movement, ban on strikes, military
occupation of transport systems and the media followed by arrests of the
local and national leaderships of the Brotherhood. At the same time, these
measures are intended to put a lid on the anti-islamists freedom of
action.<BR><BR>As the saying goes, Be careful what you wish for, you may get
it...<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="COLOR: #fff"></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>
<DIV dir=ltr>"Poems don't belong to those who write them; they belong to those
who need them" - from movie "Il Postino"<BR>Check out:https:<A
href="http://oaklandsocialist.com"
target=_blank>http://oaklandsocialist.com</A> and //<A
href="http://www.facebook.com/WorkersIntlNetwork?ref=stream"
target=_blank>www.facebook.com/WorkersIntlNetwork?ref=stream</A>
<DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>
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