<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Thanks David.... although it looks like Carl Estabrook has changed the subject .... couldn't take the heat in the kitchen? Yes, no one really knows the best path of persuasion at our level.</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> David Johnson <davidjohnson1451@comcast.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Peace-discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>; occupycu@lists.chambana.net <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:25 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Subject:</span></b> [OccupyCU] Fw: [Peace-discuss] Save books,
because you can't save kids from Obama?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv9557852888">
<style></style>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial"><b>I tend to agree with Carl and Stephen, however my
experiences in the last few years has been that way too many people are
extremely unhappy and even angry with current affairs both locally and
nationally, but they won't do anything about it.</b></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">In some cases it is fear and other cases laziness
and other situations it may very well be that people's time is overwhelmed with
work, family, etc..</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">However, a lot of it may be that people feel that
nothing they do matters.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">In that regard, I feel that at this point in time,
ANYTHING that gets people connected and organized and to turn out and speak out
publicly is a step in the right direction.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Most Working non-activist people I talk to know
things are screwed-up and are unhappy about the world situation, but they don't
know what the hell to do about it !</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Educate / Agitate / Organize is the old Labor
organizing model, but education of the issues only goes so far in changing
things for the better.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">If people directly experience success ( at least
more often than not ) by being active, organizing and speaking out locally, even
simple seemingly mundane issues, than in my opinion this will help in
the intermediate and long-term for larger issues that may seem impossible to
change or too remote from their lives.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Just my thoughts.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">David Johnson</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- Original Message -----
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="stephenf1113@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">Stephen
Francis</a> </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="stuartnlevy@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">Stuart Levy</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="arickman@illinois.edu" ymailto="mailto:arickman@illinois.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:arickman@illinois.edu">Rickman, Aimee
N</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="carl@newsfromneptune.com" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">C. G. Estabrook</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="peace-discuss@anti-war.net" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net">occupycu</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:44 AM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books,because you can't
save kids from Obama?</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;">
<div><span>I'll go out on a limb here and defend Carl Estabrook to a certain
degree. Why is it that certain people can get so disturbed by a 'library'
story and then not participate in any sort of local action involving national
issues such as fracking, jails-for-profit, manufactured wars. It can be
likened to CNN's calculated fixation on George Zimmerman. But this is too
harsh because I don't know enough about the individuals who are so exited about
the 'library' issue..so I'll back off of that. I agree we shouldn't
disparage them. I will not only defend Carl but take it one more step and
ask why there is very little attention paid to the 9/11 Truth movement.
</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;"><span>There
is more than ample proof that 9/11 was an inside job. Anyone who disagrees
with this has not researched or have an agenda to suppress it. To me it
is an effective litmus test to judge the real intentions of a so called peace
activist. There are very powerful forces in the media and government who
want to suppress the 9/11 Truth movement and an effective way is to distract via
Zimmerman or other 'stories' that well up emotions. </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;"><span>The
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.org is initiating a $300,000 world wide
campaign to raise awareness. AE911Truth is comprised of 2000 professional
architects and engineers and over 17000 supporters who prove with the laws of
physics that three WTC towers were intentionally demolished. A certain
middle eastern country does not want this information known. </span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b>
Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy@gmail.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> "Rickman, Aimee N"
<arickman@illinois.edu>; C. G. Estabrook <carl@newsfromneptune.com>;
"peace-discuss@anti-war.net" <peace-discuss@anti-war.net> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> occupycu
<occupyCU@lists.chambana.net> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:34
PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OccupyCU]
[Peace-discuss] Save books, because you can't save kids from
Obama?<br></font></div>
<div class="yiv9557852888y_msg_container"><br>Carl, and all,<br><br>It's 'way easier for people
to mobilize on issues that are seen as <br>affecting them directly. If
more of us had relatives in AF, PK, IQ, <br>Yemen, etc., then more anti-war
events these days might fill rooms, <br>too. But to most people in the US,
war and peace feel like pretty <br>remote issues - and intractable
ones.<br><br>Of course not everyone feels that way. You may remember Aimee
as the <br>one who led a bunch of us in demonstrating against, and publicly
<br>questioning, a champion of the military-industrial complex whom the U of
<br>I recently invited to speak on the "public good" (!) - Norman Augustine,
<br>ex-head of Lockheed Martin.<br><br>If we want to see an anti-war movement
that is as effective in <br>organizing people as other local activists have been
in organizing them <br>over libraries, schools, and jails, then we have to find
a way to make <br>distant, ever-more-secret wars seem immediate and personal -
and to make <br>them seem other than inevitable. (Remember the woman who,
at a recent <br>demonstration, commented that "no one goes to war because they
*want* to.")<br><br>There's no need to disparage local democratic action because
we haven't <br>figured out how to do that.<br><br> Stuart<br><br>On
7/10/13 10:17 AM, Rickman, Aimee N wrote:<br>> Carl,<br>><br>> I am
really troubled by this comment. Do you even know what is going on at the
library?<br>><br>> Your insinuation that the concerns raised over the
situation at the library somehow take energy away from organizing around more
important issues is offensive and wrong. People organizing around the library
are addressing issues of labor, of power, of transparency, of private control
over public spaces, with folks from CU demanding public involvement in the
stewarding of this local public institutions.<br>><br>> Is the library
situation as worrisome as the US drone program? As the findings and treatment of
Snoden, Manning, or Assange? As the dismantling of the voter right bill? As our
continued involvement in the middle east? No. But it is not fair for you to pit
this issue against the others and call one more worthy than the other. Those of
us organizing around the library are not tunnel-visioned. We can (and do) give
our attention to more than one issue at a time. Your comment suggests that the
library is being challenged to the detriment of the betterment of other worthy
causes. This is not the case. It is not a zero sum game. And it is for you to
suggest that this is a displaced witch hunt trivializes what is going on at the
library and demeans the powerful ripple effect that comes from movements such as
this that encourage citizens to claim their rights and to realize (despite all
they are told) that they can make a difference in how things go.<br>><br>>
Beyond this, your comment is a very familiar cocky discrediting of an effort for
not being the "real" or "right" one. Why, Carl? You must see that this is
demeaning and offensive and just plain wrong.<br>><br>> Perhaps you want
to learn more about what is going on at UFL? If so, here's a clearinghouse of
information: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://reclaimingourlibrary.blogspot.com/">http://reclaimingourlibrary.blogspot.com/</a><br>><br>> But
I am guessing you are not interested in this. I admired you on News from
Neptune, but have grown more than weary of your eternally pessimistic and
judgmental armchair commentary on this list. I think you're more than content to
be in this space whether the target of your critique is Obama or your activist
neighbors.<br>><br>> It is
unfortunate.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> **************Apologies for
any random question marks my system has weirdly added to this
email********************<br>><br>><br>>
________________________________________<br>> From: OccupyCU [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net">occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net</a>]
on behalf of C. G. Estabrook [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>]<br>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:11 AM<br>> To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a><br>>
Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>;
occupycu<br>> Subject: [OccupyCU] Save books, because you can't save kids
from Obama?<br>><br>> Quite remarkable outrage is being displayed by
people of progressive disposition in Urbana over the discarding of books from
the local library.<br>><br>> Given IT, such a decision is probably of as
little importance as at any time since the invention of printing. But a friend
plausibly suggests that the outrage is displaced affect, arising from our
seeming inability or unwillingness to stop the all-but-ignored killing by our
murderous government - or even to stop our chief magistrate (whom many library
protestors voted for) from persecuting those who publish the truth - Snowden,
Manning, Assange, et al.<br>><br>> We choke on a culling gnat and stomach
a criminal camel.<br>><br>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-09/updated-urbana-library-seek-early-separation-director.html">http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-09/updated-urbana-library-seek-early-separation-director.html</a><br>><br>>
--CGE<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> OccupyCU
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<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a><br>>
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