<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span>To Chris Goodrow on the 'birther' issue. I'm not a birther. I don't care where Obama was born. The issue is his fraudulent birth certificate, social security number and Selective Service card. </span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;">Chief Justice Roberts of the US Supreme Court </span>scheduled and held conference hearings on these documents about six months ago. See Supreme Court documents </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 153); font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: small;"> </span><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 153); font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 13px;">No. 12A606 Title: Edward Noonan, et al., Applicants v. Deborah Bowen, California Secretary of State Docketed: December 13, 2012 Lower Ct: Supreme Court of California Case Nos.: (S207078)</span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">and from the Israel Science and Technology Website ...<span style="font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Israel Science and Technology, the national database and directory of science and technology-related websites in Israel, has<span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span></span><span style="font-weight: bold;"><a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hzwiqEiT3CcJ:www.science.co.il/Obama-Birth-Certificate.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size:
13px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgb(252, 215, 0); font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 51, 153) !important;">published an article asserting the long-form birth certificate released by the White House is a forged document</a><span style="font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">.</span></span></div><div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hzwiqEiT3CcJ:www.science.co.il/Obama-Birth-Certificate.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" style="font-size: 12pt;">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hzwiqEiT3CcJ:www.science.co.il/Obama-Birth-Certificate.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us</a> <span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">The
website was created by a former science adviser to Israeli <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu</span>, Israel Hanukoglu, Ph.D. </span><span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Hanukoglu, an award-winning researcher, is a professor of biochemistry and molecular biology in Israel. </span><span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">The professor established the first version of his website during his tenure as Netanyahu’s science adviser. The site has</span><span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> </span><a href="http://www.science.co.il/hi/cv-brief.php" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align:
baseline; text-decoration: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgb(252, 215, 0); color: rgb(0, 51, 153) !important;">evolved into “the premier science and technology portal for Israel.”</a> </div><span style="font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent;">Read more at <a href="http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/israeli-science-website-obama-birth-certificate-forged/#TAczdwkvPjAjKy40.99" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 51, 153); text-decoration: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgb(252, 215, 0);">http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/israeli-science-website-obama-birth-certificate-forged/#TAczdwkvPjAjKy40.99</a> </span><div><font face="Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif" size="2">And
<span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court Roy Moore</span> is also now in the frey. <a href="http://wonkette.com/514607/alabama-birthers-very-excited-state-supreme-court-justice-roy-moore-will-make-obama-just-go-away">http://wonkette.com/514607/alabama-birthers-very-excited-state-supreme-court-justice-roy-moore-will-make-obama-just-go-away</a></font></div><div><font face="Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif" size="2">I don't agree with any of the ideologies of these people, but they are on to something, and they are very powerful people. Why would they do this and could they do this without convincing evidence.... NO.</font></div><div><font face="Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif" size="2">I rest my case.<br></font> <div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow@hotmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> David Johnson <dlj725@hughes.net> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>; "occupycu@lists.chambana.net" <occupycu@lists.chambana.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:37 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books,
because you can't save kids from Obama?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv8929905234"><div><div><span></span></div><div><div>Dave, </div><div><br></div><div>While I appreciate the offer, I don't see it as an issue. I also wouldn't go on the radio to discuss with birthers my opinion of that. </div><div><br></div><div>Here's something I never quite understood. We know two planes hit the World Trade Center buildings. What reason would there be to place detonators in surrounding buildings? Did the actual perpetrators of this feel that two planes flying into the twin towers and one into the Pentagon wouldn't bring enough outrage to the American people to help justify going into Afghanistan or Iraq later with the right amount of propaganda? We would need surrounding buildings to collapse to finally put us over the edge?</div><div><br></div><div>Oh wait, that's right, a plane didn't fly into the Pentagon. That was a
missile, right? Then where did that plane go? Did it just disappear?</div><div><br></div><div>My point is that not only do I feel I don't need to spend time and energy investigating 9/11, I also don't feel the need to spend time and energy arguing against the conspiracy theory. </div><div><br></div><div>As far as our government is concerned involving 9/11, if anything, their complicity would be negligence. <br><br>Chris<div><br></div></div><div><br>On Jul 11, 2013, at 10:03 PM, "David Johnson" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<style></style>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Chris,</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">I am having Stephen as a guest on the World Labor
Hour a week from this Saturday ( July 20th ) to specificly talk about who and
what the organization Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth is all
about.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Would you like to also come on the program to
discuss this issue ?</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">David Johnson</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;">
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="c_goodrow@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:c_goodrow@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:c_goodrow@hotmail.com">Chris
Goodrow</a> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="stephenf1113@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">Stephen Francis</a> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="peace-discuss@anti-war.net" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="carl@newsfromneptune.com" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">C. G.
Estabrook</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net">occupycu</a> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:17
PM</div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss]
Save books,because you can't save kids from Obama?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I'd like to answer this one. Why is very little attention paid to the
9/11 Truth movement? Probably because there are already enough people paying
attention to it. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>You claim there are only two possible reasons people would disagree with
this conspiracy theory. Either misinformed or a ulterior motive for doing so.
You left out one other possibility which I feel I fall under. Maybe we just
think it's bunk. For as many people who think this as fact, there are so many
more who do not, many of them architects or engineers. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>But mostly, I think you give our government far too much credit to be
able to first, pull this off and secondly, not get it leaked. A government
that could pull off something this sophisticated would also be able to "find"
WMDs. That would be a cake walk in comparison. <br><br>Chris
<div><br></div></div>
<div><br>On Jul 11, 2013, at 7:44 AM, "Stephen Francis" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;">
<div><span>I'll go out on a limb here and defend Carl Estabrook to a certain
degree. Why is it that certain people can get so disturbed by a
'library' story and then not participate in any sort of local action
involving national issues such as fracking, jails-for-profit, manufactured
wars. It can be likened to CNN's calculated fixation on George
Zimmerman. But this is too harsh because I don't know enough about the
individuals who are so exited about the 'library' issue..so I'll back off of
that. I agree we shouldn't disparage them. I will not only
defend Carl but take it one more step and ask why there is very little
attention paid to the 9/11 Truth movement. </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;"><span>There
is more than ample proof that 9/11 was an inside job. Anyone who
disagrees with this has not researched or have an agenda to suppress it.
To me it is an effective litmus test to judge the real intentions of
a so called peace activist. There are very powerful forces in the
media and government who want to suppress the 9/11 Truth movement and an
effective way is to distract via Zimmerman or other 'stories' that well up
emotions. </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;"><span>The
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://truth.org/">Truth.org</a>
is initiating a $300,000 world wide campaign to raise awareness.
AE911Truth is comprised of 2000 professional architects and engineers
and over 17000 supporters who prove with the laws of physics that three WTC
towers were intentionally demolished. A certain middle eastern country
does not want this information known. </span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b>
Stuart Levy <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> "Rickman, Aimee N" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arickman@illinois.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:arickman@illinois.edu">arickman@illinois.edu</a>>; C. G.
Estabrook <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>>; "<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>"
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>>
<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> occupycu <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net">occupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a>>
<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 10,
2013 2:34 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books, because you can't save kids from
Obama?<br></font></div>
<div class="yiv8929905234y_msg_container"><br>Carl, and all,<br><br>It's 'way easier for
people to mobilize on issues that are seen as <br>affecting them
directly. If more of us had relatives in AF, PK, IQ, <br>Yemen, etc.,
then more anti-war events these days might fill rooms, <br>too. But to
most people in the US, war and peace feel like pretty <br>remote issues -
and intractable ones.<br><br>Of course not everyone feels that way.
You may remember Aimee as the <br>one who led a bunch of us in demonstrating
against, and publicly <br>questioning, a champion of the military-industrial
complex whom the U of <br>I recently invited to speak on the "public good"
(!) - Norman Augustine, <br>ex-head of Lockheed Martin.<br><br>If we want to
see an anti-war movement that is as effective in <br>organizing people as
other local activists have been in organizing them <br>over libraries,
schools, and jails, then we have to find a way to make <br>distant,
ever-more-secret wars seem immediate and personal - and to make <br>them
seem other than inevitable. (Remember the woman who, at a recent
<br>demonstration, commented that "no one goes to war because they *want*
to.")<br><br>There's no need to disparage local democratic action because we
haven't <br>figured out how to do that.<br><br>
Stuart<br><br>On 7/10/13 10:17 AM, Rickman, Aimee N wrote:<br>>
Carl,<br>><br>> I am really troubled by this comment. Do you even know
what is going on at the library?<br>><br>> Your insinuation that the
concerns raised over the situation at the library somehow take energy away
from organizing around more important issues is offensive and wrong. People
organizing around the library are addressing issues of labor, of power, of
transparency, of private control over public spaces, with folks from CU
demanding public involvement in the stewarding of this local public
institutions.<br>><br>> Is the library situation as worrisome as the
US drone program? As the findings and treatment of Snoden, Manning, or
Assange? As the dismantling of the voter right bill? As our continued
involvement in the middle east? No. But it is not fair for you to pit this
issue against the others and call one more worthy than the other. Those of
us organizing around the library are not tunnel-visioned. We can (and do)
give our attention to more than one issue at a time. Your comment suggests
that the library is being challenged to the detriment of the betterment of
other worthy causes. This is not the case. It is not a zero sum game. And it
is for you to suggest that this is a displaced witch hunt trivializes what
is going on at the library and demeans the powerful ripple effect that comes
from movements such as this that encourage citizens to claim their rights
and to realize (despite all they are told) that they can make a difference
in how things go.<br>><br>> Beyond this, your comment is a very
familiar cocky discrediting of an effort for not being the "real" or "right"
one. Why, Carl? You must see that this is demeaning and offensive and just
plain wrong.<br>><br>> Perhaps you want to learn more about what is
going on at UFL? If so, here's a clearinghouse of information: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://reclaimingourlibrary.blogspot.com/">http://reclaimingourlibrary.blogspot.com/</a><br>><br>>
But I am guessing you are not interested in this. I admired you on News from
Neptune, but have grown more than weary of your eternally pessimistic and
judgmental armchair commentary on this list. I think you're more than
content to be in this space whether the target of your critique is Obama or
your activist neighbors.<br>><br>> It is
unfortunate.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> **************Apologies
for any random question marks my system has weirdly added to this
email********************<br>><br>><br>>
________________________________________<br>> From: OccupyCU [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net">occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net</a>]
on behalf of C. G. Estabrook [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>]<br>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:11 AM<br>> To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a><br>>
Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>;
occupycu<br>> Subject: [OccupyCU] Save books, because you can't save kids
from Obama?<br>><br>> Quite remarkable outrage is being displayed by
people of progressive disposition in Urbana over the discarding of books
from the local library.<br>><br>> Given IT, such a decision is
probably of as little importance as at any time since the invention of
printing. But a friend plausibly suggests that the outrage is displaced
affect, arising from our seeming inability or unwillingness to stop the
all-but-ignored killing by our murderous government - or even to stop our
chief magistrate (whom many library protestors voted for) from persecuting
those who publish the truth - Snowden, Manning, Assange, et
al.<br>><br>> We choke on a culling gnat and stomach a criminal
camel.<br>><br>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-09/updated-urbana-library-seek-early-separation-director.html">http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-09/updated-urbana-library-seek-early-separation-director.html</a><br>><br>>
--CGE<br>> _______________________________________________<br>>
OccupyCU mailing list<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a><br>>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a><br>>
_______________________________________________<br>> Peace-discuss
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<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>OccupyCU
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>OccupyCU
mailing list</span><br><span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net">OccupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a></span><br><span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu</a></span><br></div></blockquote>
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