<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I have some interaction with the author of "The Uncomfortable Truth" article circulated by CGE on this list.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">@Paul Mueth: Frankly, I could care less what some guy on “Here and Now” says. I do this for a living, I have for a very long time, I have read and watched most everything in this case (and I very much doubt that person, whoever it is, has) and I will stand by my opinions and analysis. And, AGAIN, my opinion and analysis are based on the actual evidence and actual jury instructions. -</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "> See more at: <a href="http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#comment-573393">http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#comment-573393</a></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">RE empty wheel discourse.The interviewee on NPR does it ( da law) for a living too. Perhaps others would like to ck it.</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">"The defense merely had to establish that there was a perception of risk, of bodily harm, on the part of Mr. Zimmerman for these instructions to be resonant on the part of jurors,” jury consultant Doug Keene told Here & Now. “Under the old law, you were obliged to escape the situation without use of deadly force. Under the new law, you don’t need to establish that.”</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><a href="http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/07/15/stand-ground-laws">http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/07/15/stand-ground-laws</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br>Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!</div><div><br>On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Paul Mueth <<a href="mailto:paulmueth@yahoo.com">paulmueth@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">The lawyer in the Here & Now interview disagrees entirely with your diminishment of the role of the range of "legal lethal defense"</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">In Florida the SYG idiocy is perhaps polled as approved by nearly</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">2/3! Must be in the water?!</div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; ">PS. <span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">BTW </span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">not a general endorsement of H& N.</span></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Based in bean town and never had neighbor Noam from Newton on!!)</span></div><div style="font-family: Noteworthy; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 24px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(130, 98, 83, 0.0976563); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(191, 107, 82, 0.496094); -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; "><br></div>Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!</div><div><br>On Jul 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, "C. G. Estabrook" <<a href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8">The written instructions to the jury (released after the note below was written) used the phrase, but the law wasn't part of the defense:<div><br></div><div>"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."<br><br><<a href="http://reason.com">reason.com</a>> writes, "That language is part of the standard jury instruction [3.6(f)] in cases where the defendant claims his use of deadly force was justified. But it is hard to see how it applies to the facts of this case, since Zimmerman claimed he was unable to retreat and therefore did not base his defense on the right to stand your ground. The fact that a legal provision was mentioned in the instructions does not necessarily mean it was relevant in reaching a verdict. For example, the instructions also mentioned accidental killings and attacks on dwellings, neither of which applies to the circumstances of the encounter between Zimmerman and Martin." <br><div><br></div><div>--CGE<br><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jul 15, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Paul Mueth <<a href="mailto:paulmueth@yahoo.com">paulmueth@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="auto"><div>This is wrong,</div><div> "stand your ground" was referred to in instructions to the jury, ck Dem Now today. </div><div>It may be standard op in FL, I guess particularly when the accused prep is the son of a judge, </div><div><br></div><div>There should be an argument about whether Z used the word "coon" on<br>The 911 call or not.</div><div>Chew on this for a while,</div><div>Everything is fine in FL</div><div><a href="http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/black-woman-gets-20-years-for-firing-shot-at-wall,51b7609bda27f5d9d0dd3c29">http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/black-woman-gets-20-years-for-firing-shot-at-wall,51b7609bda27f5d9d0dd3c29</a></div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!</div><div><br>On Jul 14, 2013, at 11:16 AM, "C. G. Estabrook" <<a href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span>'...State of Florida v. Zimmerman is a straight up traditional self defense case. It has never been pled as a Stand Your Ground defense case, irrespective of all the press coverage, attention and attribution to Stand Your Ground. It’s never been Stand Your Ground, and certainly is not now that the evidence is all in on the trial record. It is a straight self defense justification defense, one that would be pretty much the same under the law of any state in the union including that which you are in, and that I am in, now (so don’t blame “Florida law”)...'</span><br><span></span><br><span>- See more at: <a href="http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#sthash.j89tcZbp.dpuf">http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#sthash.j89tcZbp.dpuf</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:31 AM, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>The Martin/Zimmerman incident is not like the </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Champaign Police shootings of young black men.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Zimmerman may be an asshole or not. I am not sure.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Most but not all cops and wannabee cops are </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>indeed quasi-assholes. Not all.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But clearly Zimmerman was attacked, and on that basis he </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>has been set free, because of the self-defense argument.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The cause of the dispute betwen Martin and Zimmerman</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>becomes irrelevant when Zimmerman is attacked.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's not like Zimmerman just pulled out his gun and </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Oba-nam Style executed him because he was wearing a hoodie.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The law permits people to have encounters and disagreement.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>When it erupts into physical violence particularly life-threatening</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>violence, then a line is crossed. The situation was</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>examined very clearly.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Justice my ass.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's not justice that they are crying for. </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's blood.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>They want an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>They want blood for bloodshed.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Well, actually what they want is Money.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But since there isn't any money available,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>they'll settle for a few pints of blood,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and several ounces of testicular flesh if that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>becomes available.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It is really a disgusting distraction for a noble movement</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>like Occupy! to get down and grub for cooties</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>with the blood-lust crowd.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 07/14/13 22:02, Karen Aram wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Rachel</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>After today's AWARE meeting at 5:00, I will be attending the protest, bringing a neighbor as well. </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Trayvon Marvin represents the many young black men from Emmet Till, Jimmie Lee Jackson, Robert Hall etc., etc. murdered because of their race, with the perpetrators so obviously being acquitted by unjust laws and or decisions. </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Karen Aram</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:rachelstrm@gmail.com">rachelstrm@gmail.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 03:51:39 -0500</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:sdas-current@googlegroups.com">sdas-current@googlegroups.com</a>; <a href="mailto:sdas-list@googlegroups.com">sdas-list@googlegroups.com</a>; <a href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net">occupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a>; <a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>; <a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Organize!</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hey folks---If anyone has heard of another demo being planned, I'm happy to send notices out, cancel this one, and redirect people there. I've contacted a number of African-American led organizations in town and can't seem to tell if something is already in the works. Either way, I'm happy to help try and get the word out and then redirect if need be.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Okay, here's what I got to start. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create">https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Please forward widely. </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>No Justice, No Peace x Protest the Verdict</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sunday, July 14th, 2013 | 6pm-8pm</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Douglass Park | 512 E. Grove St. Champaign</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, igniting a national debate on racial profiling and civil rights, was found not guilty late Saturday night of second-degree murder." We will stand together in Champaign-Urbana to demand accountability, to stand against racial injustice, and to protest the verdict that proved the injustice of the system. We stand with Trayvon’s family and we know that we are called to act---to fight for civil rights and for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws in every state, and we will not rest until racial profiling in all its forms is outlawed. Today we mourn, but tomorrow we organize. #blacklivesmatter</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bring your friends, your family, your children, your neighbors. We stand together as a community--all of us. Art, protest signs, candles, and messages of outrage/hope/love/solidarity are encouraged. </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Share on Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create">https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Rachel Storm <<a href="mailto:rachelstrm@gmail.com">rachelstrm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I think we need an emergency demonstration tomorrow in response to the Zimmerman verdict to show that Urbana community members/activists/folks in solidarity do not stand for this outrageous demonstration of injustice.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Can we plan to meet somewhere very public tomorrow (Sunday) at 6pm-ish?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>WHERE?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Rachel</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Peace-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Peace-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>