<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>This is a reply to the local community excluding David Gehrig.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I'm no expert on Zionist or Jewish history, but have studied it extensively.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I just want to express my support for the following groups listed below.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>It only took a few minutes to put this list together. I'm sure I could find hundreds more.</span></div><div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I am not religious so have no interest in these groups in a religious sense, but do believe they are sincere about their faith and their faith is more important to them than power and wealth. Unlike the Zionists.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I will not go into a long discourse other that list some the websites that I admire and respect about this issue:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://www.nkusa.org/">http://www.nkusa.org/</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/satmar.htm">http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/satmar.htm</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/">http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-against-zionism.html">http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-against-zionism.html</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a
href="http://www.truetorahjews.org/">http://www.truetorahjews.org/</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_for_Judaism">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_for_Judaism</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_Against_Zionism_(book)">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_Against_Zionism_(book)</a><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Thank You</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times,
serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Steve Francis</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> David Johnson <dlj725@hughes.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>; occupycu@lists.chambana.net <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 27, 2013 4:08 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [OccupyCU] Fw: [Peace-discuss] Holocaust Industry<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv1507623726">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- Original Message -----
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="dlj725@hughes.net" ymailto="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">David Johnson</a> </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="david-cu@nukulele.org" ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">David Gehrig</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 27, 2013 6:06 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] Holocaust Industry</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><b>Mr. Gehrig,</b></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">You have NO credibility based on your past and
present actions !</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">A perfect case in point is how you distorted one
of my recent e-mail replys and took one sentence out of complete context to
imply that ;</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"> " I do not give a shit about three million
people ",</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"> when what my e-mail stated in it;s entirety
was that " who gives a shit about rather the Nazi holocaust was three million or
6-million, it was a horribhle atrocity that should always be condemed, BUT
what about the atrocities currently happening around the world,
perprtrated NOT by a muderous government 70 years ago, but by the CURRENT
U.S. and Israeli governments !</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">If what you are saying about Stephen
Francis's posts are true, that the source for a segment on his website is a
neo-Nazi , than I would agree that Stephen should " keep his hand out of the
Neo-Nazi cookie jar ", in regard to that particular
source.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">You have accused me of " jumping all over the
place ", but you are the one who will NOT answer direct questiions and
always divert the subject to " anti-semitism ", your anti-semitism card has
become a little worn and discredited !</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Since you have been posting for some time now
on the Occupy and Peace Discuss lists on and off as you troll and lurk in the
shadows, I have NOT seen you post ONE ITEM in support of the principles of
the Occupy Movement against the Neo-Conservative / Neo-Liberal agenda
!</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Also, I have NOT seen you post a SINGLE item
against ; the invasion and continued occupation of Afganistan or Iraq, or
against drome strikes murdering innocent women and children and men
non-combatents in Afganistan, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan
etc.</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Not to mention..... And I am sure you will call me
anti-semetic for this statement, I don't give a shit. But... What about
the crimes against humanity that the current government of Israel are commiting
and have been commiting for decades now against the Palastinian people
!</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Now I see you are attacking Norman Finkelstein,
which speaks volumes !</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">So my question to you is
simple....</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">What the fuck are you doing on these lists except
to attempt to disrupt and discredit activists who are fighting the neo-FASCIST
Neo-liberal powers that be that are committing genocide as we speak
!</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">You seemed obssesed with Fascists and crimes
against humanity that happened 70 years ago, what about the atrocities that are
happening TODAY !</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">AGAIN, why don't you come out of the shadows
and debate me publicly ?</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"></font></b> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">David Johnson</font></b> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;" dir="ltr">
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="david-cu@nukulele.org" ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">David
Gehrig</a> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="dlj725@hughes.net" ymailto="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">David Johnson</a> </div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
</div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 27, 2013 5:08
PM</div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] Holocaust
Industry</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><span style="">Once again, I have removed
Occupy CU from the reply list, as<br>it is not a discussion list.<br><br>What
follows is, among other things, not just a big lazy<br>slab of cut-and-paste
from Wikipedia.<br><br>Finkelstein is in many ways deeply flawed academic --
his<br>tendentious take on Lipstadt is, frankly, too removed from<br>reality
to take seriously -- but he did hit on something<br>that needed to be said:
anti-Zionism is not, per se, always<br>a form of antisemitism, and bogus
claims of antisemitism are<br>indeed used as a weapon against
anti-Zionism.<br><br>Too bad he stopped there.<br><br>Unfortunately, it soon
became clear that all too many people<br>-- including ones on this list --
extrapolated Finkelstein's<br>statement into a much broader one: that every
claim that any<br>anti-Zionist is also an antisemite as well must be
by<br>definition false, cannot possibly be true, and should be<br>shouted down
as loudly and derisively as possible. It is no<br>more possible to be an
antisemitic anti-Zionist than it is<br>to be a square circle, they said; other
than a few<br>curiousities and freakazoids here and there, it just
can't<br>happen.<br><br>Well, as any student of Jewish history can tell you,
what<br>happens when you red-line an area in which people are<br>politically
committed a priori to seeing no antisemitism? Up<br>come the charlatans --
antisemites who see an audience ripe<br>for the plucking. All these guys have
to do is just<br>substitute the word "Zionist" every time they would
have<br>previously used the word "Jew," and at least some
uncritical<br>anti-Zionists will just slurp it up, every last
anti-Jewish<br>stereotype in it, and beg for more, convinced that it's
not<br>antisemitism but anti-Zionism.<br><br>After the catastrophic defeat of
Holocaust denier David<br>Irving in the London courtroom in 2000 (a trial in
which, as<br>it happens, every one of Stephen's
ridiculous<br>neo-Nazi-originated claims about the Holocaust gas
chambers<br>were addressed and decisively refuted), the Holocaust
denial<br>movement made a conscious decision to repaint themselves as<br>not
anti-Jewish but "anti-Zionist *wink wink*".<br><br>As you can see, that was a
surprisingly successful move for<br>them.<br><br>What did it take to get
Stephen quoting neo-Fascist<br>publishers like the IHR and neo-Nazis like
Zündel? All they<br>had to do is call themselves "anti-Zionist," and
suddenly<br>people like Stephen couldn't wait to carry their water, oh<br>boy
oh boy.<br><br>All through this discussion, people like the Johnsons
and<br>Stephen have tried to force everything into the tiny little<br>box in
which everything is determined by the circa-2000<br>Finkelstein reflex. In
doing so, they have all along missed<br>what the discussion is actually
about.<br><br>Is anti-Zionism antisemitic? Relying solely on
the<br>Finkelstein-2000 reflex demands you answer "no." But<br>thirteen years
after Finkelstein, we've seen that this snap<br>answer isn't really quite
sufficient. The answer is neither<br>"yes" nor "no," but "depends on the
individual case."<br>Holocaust denial isn't anti-Zionism, it's
antisemitism<br>trying to pass itself off as anti-Zionism. If you have
no<br>room in your mental framework for that distinction, then<br>your mental
framework is inadequate, and you are ripe for<br>picking by the Zündels of the
world.<br><br>As we have seen.<br><br>Combatting Holocaust denial is something
everyone should<br>agree on. Most anti-Zionists know that they have nothing
to<br>gain from neo-Nazi Ernst Zündel videos. But, as you can see<br>here,
there are those who haven't gotten to that point yet<br>-- and will apparently
fight screaming every step along the<br>road to enlightenment.<br><br>I have
tried to get a few people here another step down the<br>path. Only time will
tell if they take it.</span><br><br><span style="">@%<</span></div>
<div style=""><br>On Jul 27, 2013, at 11:34 AM,
"David Johnson" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:dlj725@hughes.net">dlj725@hughes.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<blockquote style="" type="cite">
<div>
<style></style>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">
<div><i><b>The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish
Suffering</b></i> is a 2000 book by <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Norman G. Finkelstein" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_G._Finkelstein">Norman G.
Finkelstein</a> that argues that the <a rel="nofollow" title="American Jews" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews">American Jewish</a>
establishment exploits the memory of the <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Nazi" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi">Nazi</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="The Holocaust" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust">Holocaust</a> for
political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of <a rel="nofollow" title="Israel" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel">Israel</a>.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-1" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a></sup>
According to Finkelstein, this "Holocaust industry" has corrupted <a rel="nofollow" title="Jewish culture" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_culture">Jewish culture</a> and
the authentic memory of the Holocaust.</div>
<table id="yiv1507623726toc" class="yiv1507623726toc">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<div id="yiv1507623726toctitle">
<h2> </h2></div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div>Finkelstein states that his consciousness of "the Nazi holocaust" is
rooted in his parents' experiences in the <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Warsaw ghetto" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_ghetto">Warsaw ghetto</a>; with
the exception of his parents themselves, "every family member on both sides
was exterminated by the Nazis".<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-h5_2-0" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-h5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a></sup>
Nonetheless, during his childhood, no one ever asked any questions about
what his mother and father had suffered. He suggests, "This was not a
respectful silence. It was indifference."<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-h5_2-1" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-h5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a></sup>
It was only after the establishment of "the Holocaust industry", he
suggests, that outpourings of anguish over the plight of the Jews in <a rel="nofollow" title="World War II" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II">World
War II</a> began. This ideology in turn served to endow Israel with a status
as "'victim' state" despite its "horrendous" human rights record.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-h5_2-2" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-h5-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a></sup></div>
<div>According to Finkelstein, his book is "an anatomy and an indictment of
the Holocaust industry". He argues that "'The Holocaust' is an ideological
representation of the Nazi holocaust".<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-3" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a></sup></div>
<div>In the foreword to the first <a rel="nofollow" title="Paperback" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback">paperback</a> edition,
Finkelstein notes that the first hardback edition had been a considerable
hit in several European countries and many languages, but had been panned in
the US. He sees <i><a rel="nofollow" title="The New York Times" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times">The New York
Times</a></i> as the main promotional vehicle of the "Holocaust industry",
and notes that the 1999 Index listed 273 entries for the Holocaust and just
32 entries for the entire continent of <a rel="nofollow" title="Africa" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa">Africa</a>.</div>
<h2><span id="yiv1507623726Chapters" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Chapters</span></h2>
<ul>
<li>Chapter 1: <i>Capitalizing The Holocaust</i> - by the 1980s,
Finkelstein states, the "War against the Jews" had become more important
to American cultural life than the "War Between the States".(p. 11)
</li><li>Chapter 2: <i>Hoaxers, Hucksters and History</i> - in 1967,
Finkelstein claims that two concepts appeared in public discourse: The
uniqueness of the Holocaust, and the concept of the Holocaust as climax of
a historical irrational <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Anti-Semitism" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism">anti-Semitic</a>
tendency in Europe. Finkelstein asserts that these concepts became central
to the "Holocaust Industry", but that neither figures in scholarship of
the Nazi Holocaust.(p. 13)
</li><li>Chapter 3: <i>The Double Shakedown</i> - in this chapter, Finkelstein
claims that the number of Jewish <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Holocaust survivors" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_survivors">survivors of the
Holocaust</a> recognized by relief groups increased from c. 100,000 in
1945<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-4" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a></sup>
to nearly 1 million<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-5" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a></sup>
owing to definitional changes in who was considered to be a survivor.
Because of this, Finkelstein repeatedly asserts that "fraudulent" claims
were made on Switzerland, while accounts and assets in the US and Israel
were ignored. Payments were made to the wrong people and real survivors
lost out.</li></ul>
<div>The second (2003) edition contained 100 pages of new material, primarily
in chapter 3 on the Swiss Banks lawsuit. Finkelstein set out to provide a
guide to the relevant sections of the case. He feels that the presiding
judge elected not to docket crucial documents, and that the Claims
Resolution Tribunal could no longer be trusted. Finkelstein claims the CRT
was on course to vindicate the Swiss banks before it changed tack in order
to "protect the blackmailers' reputation".</div>
<h2><span id="yiv1507623726Other_topics" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Other topics</span></h2>
<h3><span id="yiv1507623726Fraudulent_writings_on_the_Holocaust" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Fraudulent writings on the Holocaust</span></h3>
<div>Finkelstein describes two known frauds, that of <i><a rel="nofollow" title="The Painted Bird" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Painted_Bird">The Painted
Bird</a></i> by Polish writer <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Jerzy Kosinski" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Kosinski">Jerzy Kosinski</a> and
<i>Fragments</i> by <a rel="nofollow" title="Binjamin Wilkomirski" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binjamin_Wilkomirski">Binjamin
Wilkomirski</a>, and how they were defended by people even after they'd been
exposed. He identifies some of these people as members of the "Holocaust
Industry", and notes that they also support each other. <a rel="nofollow" title="Elie Wiesel" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel">Elie
Wiesel</a> supported Kosinski; <a rel="nofollow" title="Israel Gutman" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Gutman">Israel Gutman</a> and <a rel="nofollow" title="Daniel Goldhagen" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Goldhagen">Daniel Goldhagen</a>
(see below) supported Wilkomirski; Wiesel and Gutman support Goldhagen.</div>
<h3><span id="yiv1507623726Holocaust_Industry_defends_itself" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Holocaust
Industry defends itself</span></h3>
<div>Finkelstein has published heavy criticisms of several books in his
career, as he did to <i><a rel="nofollow" title="Hitler's Willing Executioners" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Willing_Executioners">Hitler's
Willing Executioners</a></i> by Daniel Johnah Goldhagen, which he calls
"replete with gross misinterpretations of source material and internal
contradictions", and says "the book is devoid of scholarly value".
Independently, Ruth Bettina Birn (the world's leading authority on the
archives that Goldhagen had consulted and chief historian for War Crimes
with the Canadian Department of Justice) did the same - she and Finkelstein
worked together on <i>A Nation on Trial: The Goldhagen Thesis and Historical
Truth</i>. Goldhagen refused the journal's invitation for a full rebuttal,
and instead enlisted a London law firm to sue Birn and the Cambridge
University Press. Protests were made to Birn's employer, calling her "a
member of the perpetrator race" (she is <a rel="nofollow" title="Germany" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany">German</a>-born), prompting an
official investigation of her.(p. 66)</div>
<h3><span id="yiv1507623726Other_genocides" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Other genocides</span></h3>
<div>Finkelstein scathingly compared the media treatment of the Holocaust and
the media treatment of other genocides such as the <a rel="nofollow" title="Holodomor" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor">Holodomor</a> and the <a rel="nofollow" title="Armenian Genocide" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide">Armenian Genocide</a>,
particularly by members of what he calls "The Holocaust Industry". (1 to 1.5
million Armenians died in the years between 1915 and 1917/1923 - denial
includes the claim that they were the result of a Civil War within <a rel="nofollow" title="World War I" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I">World
War I</a>, or refusal to accept there were deaths). In 2001, Israeli Foreign
Minister <a rel="nofollow" title="Shimon Peres" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres">Shimon Peres</a> went so
far as to dismiss it as "allegations". However, by this time historical
consensus was changing, and he was "angrily compared ... to a holocaust
denier" by Dr Charny, executive director of the <a rel="nofollow" title="Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_on_the_Holocaust_and_Genocide">Institute
on the Holocaust and Genocide</a> in <a rel="nofollow" title="Jerusalem" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem">Jerusalem</a>.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-6" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a></sup></div>
<div>In August 2007, the <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel_Foundation_for_Humanity">Elie
Wiesel Foundation for Humanity</a> produced a letter signed by 53 <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Nobel Laureate" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Laureate">Nobel Laureates</a>
re-affirming the Genocide Scholars' conclusion that the 1915 killings of
Armenians <a rel="nofollow" title="Armenian Genocide recognition" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_recognition">constituted
genocide</a>.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-7" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a></sup>
However, Wiesel's organization asserted there would be no legal "basis for
reparations or territorial claims", anticipating Turkish anxieties that it
could prompt financial or property claims. <a rel="nofollow" title="Abraham Foxman" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Foxman">Abraham
Foxman</a> of the <a rel="nofollow" title="Anti-Defamation League" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League">Anti-Defamation
League</a> announced: "Upon reflection, the consequences of those actions
were indeed tantamount to <a rel="nofollow" title="Genocide" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide">genocide</a>".<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-8" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a></sup></div>
<h3><span id="yiv1507623726Other_forms_of_Holocaust_denial" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Other forms
of Holocaust denial</span></h3>
<div>According to Finkelstein, Elie Wiesel characterizes any suggestion that
he has profited from the "Holocaust Industry", or even any criticism at all,
as <a rel="nofollow" title="Holocaust denial" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial">Holocaust
denial</a>.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-9" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-9"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a></sup>
Questioning a survivor's testimony, denouncing the role of Jewish
collaborators, suggesting that Germans suffered during the <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Bombing of Dresden" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden">bombing of
Dresden</a> or that any state except Germany committed crimes in World War
II are all evidence of Holocaust denial – according to Deborah Lipstadt<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-10" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a></sup>
– and the most "insidious" forms of Holocaust denial are "immoral
equivalencies", denying the <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1507623726mw-redirect" title="Uniqueness of The Holocaust" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniqueness_of_The_Holocaust">uniqueness
of The Holocaust</a>.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-11" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-11"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a></sup>
Finkelstein examines the implications of applying this standard to another
member of the "Holocaust Industry", Daniel Goldhagen, who argued that <a rel="nofollow" title="Serbia" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia">Serbian</a> actions
in <a rel="nofollow" title="Kosovo" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo">Kosovo</a>
"are, in their essence, different from those of Nazi Germany only in
scale".<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-12" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-12"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a></sup></div>
<h3><span id="yiv1507623726Holocaust_deniers_in_real_life" class="yiv1507623726mw-headline">Holocaust
deniers in real life</span></h3>
<div class="yiv1507623726rellink">Further information: <a rel="nofollow" title="Armenian Genocide recognition" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_recognition">Armenian
Genocide recognition</a> and <a rel="nofollow" title="Holocaust denial" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial">Holocaust
denial</a></div>
<div>According to Finkelstein, <a rel="nofollow" title="Deborah Lipstadt" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Lipstadt">Deborah Lipstadt</a>
claims there is widespread Holocaust denial - yet in "Denying the Holocaust"
her prime example is <a rel="nofollow" title="Arthur Butz" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz">Arthur Butz</a>, author of
<i><a rel="nofollow" title="The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hoax_of_the_Twentieth_Century">The
Hoax of the Twentieth Century</a></i>. The chapter on him is entitled
"Entering the Mainstream" - but Finkelstein considers that, were it not for
the likes of Lipstadt, no one would ever have heard of Arthur Butz.
Holocaust deniers have as much influence in the US as the <a rel="nofollow" title="Flat Earth Society" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society">Flat Earth
Society</a> (p. 69). Finkelstein believes there to be only one "truly
mainstream" holocaust denier—<a rel="nofollow" title="Bernard Lewis" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis">Bernard Lewis</a>, who was
convicted in <a rel="nofollow" title="France" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France">France</a> of denying the
Armenian genocide.<sup id="yiv1507623726cite_ref-13" class="yiv1507623726reference"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry#cite_note-13"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a></sup>
Since Lewis is pro-Israel, "this instance ... raises no hackles in the
United States."</div></font></div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote style="" type="cite">
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