<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><base href="x-msg://186/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I want to encourage Congressional votes against Obama's war, as we once did against Nixon's. <div><br></div><div>I don't care too much what the Congress members' motives are. (And we've recently been warned by Ron against ascribing motives: he seems to argue that we can't really know why Obama kills kids with drones; but Ron is surely right to imply that, whatever his motives, he should be made to stop.)</div><div><br></div><div>In the House, Republican and Democratic votes are equal, and motives are not recorded.</div><div><br></div><div>In fact though, a left-right antiwar coalition is building up in the Congress - and even more in the country - in opposition to the neoliberal leadership of both political parties. (Note Rep. Pelosi's role in the Amash Amendment vote.)</div><div><br></div><div><div>The 'Death of the Liberal Class' - its co-option by Obama and the Democrats - means that an antiwar movement cannot rely on putative liberals, who have abandoned it. </div><div><br></div><div>But two-thirds of the country opposes Obama's war (as it once did Johnson's and Nixon's). Obama's war policy can be reversed as theirs was. --CGE </div><div><br></div></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 27, 2013, at 11:39 AM, Karen Aram <<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div dir="ltr">Sorry guys, I think you have rose colored glasses on, if you think the Republicans are going to lead the way to peace.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> <br>When it comes to "the people" republicans, democrats they are individuals but they all tend to support their parties with whom they "identify", so now while a democratic President is in power, the republicans will reject war/him while the democrats wear blindfolders and allow themselves to be distracted.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> <br>Get a republican or libertarian President as many call themselves who vote republican, due to privacy and fiscal conservative concerns, in power and there goes your peace. Rand Paul is espousing an anti-war foreign policy to become popular amongst the many who don't look deeper at the issues, they just buy into his rhetoric. The same rhetoric that Obama uses to fool liberal democrats. <br> <br>While it maybe true that a Rand Paul, maybe due to his fiscal conservatism may not wish to "spend funds" to support overseas wars, his motives are not a result of an aversion to "killing". In any event, its the machine of our system that has put in place the wars in the magreb, and control of Asia. So it doesn't matter who is the "reigning monarch", his power is limited by the forces that control him and our representatives. Until the people rise up against those forces, nothing will change and even then it maybe too late.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>See:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><h3 class="r" sb_id="ms__id471" style="white-space: normal; "><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6UynI5m7Y" sb_id="ms__id472"><font color="#1122cc">'Obey': Film Based on Chris Hedges' 'Death of the Liberal Class<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>...</b></font></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a style="padding: 0px; border: currentcolor; top: 2px; text-decoration: none; display: inline; position: relative; cursor: pointer; "><img class="l sb-l" id="sbresult_1" src="symres:sb_safeannotation.png" style="top: 0px; width: 46px; height: 15px; position: relative; cursor: pointer; "></a></h3><div class="s" sb_id="ms__id475"><div sb_id="ms__id476"><div class="thbb thb th" sb_id="ms__id477" style="width: 116px; height: 65px; "><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6UynI5m7Y" sb_id="ms__id478"><span class="thc" sb_id="ms__id479" style="top: -11px; "><img width="116" height="87" id="vidthumb2" border="0" sb_id="ms__id480"></span><font color="#1122cc"><span class="vdur thl thlb" sb_id="ms__id481">► 51:47</span><span class="vdur thl thlt" sb_id="ms__id482">► 51:47</span></font></a></div></div><div sb_id="ms__id483" style="margin-left: 125px; "><div class="f kv" sb_id="ms__id484" style="white-space: nowrap; "><cite sb_id="ms__id485"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6UynI5m7Y">www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6UynI5m7Y</a></cite></div><div class="f slp" sb_id="ms__id486">Feb 25, 2013 - Uploaded by Legalis Pseudonym</div><span class="st" sb_id="ms__id487">British filmmaker Temujin Doran has released a new<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>movie</strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>that is based on the book "The Death of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>...</b></span></div></div> <br> <br> <br> <br><div>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a><br>> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 09:18:28 -0500<br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</a><br>> CC:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Antiwar movement: now Republicans, not Democrats<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> I entirely agree.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Five years ago, I wouldn't have thought Obama and the Democrats could have co-opted the US antiwar movement to the extent that they did - although it was clear that they were trying to do so. But it was an autocratic Illinois politician who pointed out that you can't fool all of the people all of the time: it was bound to emerge elsewhere. The diversion of opposition to the Bush/Obama wars among the political class (roughly, the 20% of Americans who went to 'good' colleges) is nevertheless remarkable.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> --CGE<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated." --George Orwell, 1984<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:59 AM, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</a>> wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > I miss Kucinich more than I do Mr. Coffee or Paul Simon.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Chris Christie and a gaggle of neocons came out against the libertarian trend<br>> > in the Republican party a couple of days ago.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > It is refreshing to see McCain and Peter King labelled as the Nut Cases that<br>> > they are.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > The Democrat party is the War Party.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > I havent been nearly as excited about Rand Paul as I am about the<br>> > highly principled Old Man...<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > but it certainly is a fresh wind that blows against the Empire.<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > On 07/27/13 14:32, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br>> >> [Antiwar sentiment in the US, formerly found among Democratic (paleo)liberals - now largely extinct ("Where have you gone, Dennis Kucinich? / A nation turns its lonely eyes to you...") - is now more likely to be found among Republican paleoconservatives (as contrasted with neoconservatives). The following comment is from a right-wing website that in fact deplores the development. Cf.<<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/08/an-anti-war-anti-wall-street-republican-party/">http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/08/an-anti-war-anti-wall-street-republican-party/</a>>. --CGE]<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Posted By W. James Antle III On 9:43 AM 07/26/2013<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> What a difference six years makes.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> In June 2007, a Gallup/USA Today poll found that a 32 percent plurality of Republican voters preferred Rudy Giuliani for president. John McCain was in second place at 19 percent. Ron Paul was near the bottom of the pack with just 1 percent of the vote.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Near the end of George W. Bush’s presidency, the GOP was still very much the hawks’ party.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> But in July 2013, Rand Paul leads among Republicans nationally, at least according to a Public Policy Polling survey. At 16 percent, he is narrowly ahead of Chris Christie, Jeb Bush and Paul Ryan. Marco Rubio is further behind.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Multiple polls have now found the younger Paul ahead in both Iowa and New Hampshire, the first two states in the 2016 Republican primary calendar. This time around, it is likely that the single-issue hawks — think John Bolton or Peter King — would hover around 1 percent if they were included in the polls.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Liz Cheney is running for the Republican senatorial nomination in Wyoming to solidify support for foreign policy views that were once almost universal in the party while her father was vice president.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Depending on which poll you believe, Cheney is trailing by either 28 points or 34 points.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> A narrow majority of House Republicans who have served in Congress for less than five years voted for Michigan GOP Rep. Justin Amash’s amendment to defund the NSA’s national surveillance program. Wisconsin Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a past chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and Patriot Act co-author, voted for it.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Even some Republicans who voted against it, like Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, voted with antiwar Democrats when President Barack Obama waged war in Libya without congressional approval. The Wall Street Journal editorial page called the 86 GOP lawmakers who joined her “Kucinich Republicans,” but maybe Robert Taft Republicans works better.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> The party is changing on foreign policy and civil liberties, perhaps moving in the direction of the broader American public. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that only 15 percent of Americans favored military action in Syria. Just 11 percent are willing to even arm the rebels.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> “Whether you voted for Romney or Obama, they have the same opinion on Syria,” said Republican pollster Bill McInturff.<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> The polling on Iran is more mixed, but a recent CBS News/New York Times poll found that 59 percent of Americans believe Tehran can be contained, 21 percent believe the regime is not a threat and only 15 percent believe immediate action is required...<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> [Full at<<a href="http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/26/lets-grow-up-paleoconservatives/?print=1">http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/26/lets-grow-up-paleoconservatives/?print=1</a>>]<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Peace-discuss mailing list<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>