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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>WOW !</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>How interesting that your outburst of hate
was a result of me asking you if you are involved in the
community !</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>:" I've been to your meetings."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>Which meetings are you talking about
?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV> " I've seen your tv show. Alex Jones without the
entertainment "</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Alex Jones ?? How
interesting.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>What would you say that Alex Jones and I have in
common as far as program content ?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I would be REALLY curious to
know.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>" Am I now or have I ever been a communist? "</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>I don't know, are you ?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Or are you implying ( again ) that I am a
Communist instead of a racist....</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Make up your mind !</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>The answer is no, but I have been called
worse.</FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>"You're a virus. You're cancer. You're death to anything you've
ever been involved with. If you think I would expose my friends to that,
add insane to virus</DIV>
<DIV>and cancer ".<BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Is that the best ( worse ) you can say about me
?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Again nothing specific from
you.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>"Man,
you so missed your chance at civility. You want respect? You're a
loose tooth. You're a canker sore. You're a barnacle, but not so
easily gotten rid of. You're dog shit on my shoe."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG>In general, it seems I hit some nerve that set you
off.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>As I stated in my last e-mail, I ( nor anyone else on this list ) ;
cursed you ar disrespected you. </FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>If you think I was not being civil just becasue i disagreed with you
about something, I truely don't know what to tell you, except that
sometimes the truth hurts.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>But you shouldn't feel that way...the truth can set you
free.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>Obviously there is more to this than the initial e-mail exchange on
peace discuss.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>And funny how I have never seen you post to Peace Discuss prior, nor
have I ever heard of you before, and except for a few encounters with C-U
Occupy , nobody I know who is involved in the community in regards to
social activism has ever heard of you.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>So what type of editing and writting do you do
?</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>Where do you work ?</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>Are you originally from Bloomington Indiana or did you just go to
school there ?</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial>aka. The Plague</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><STRONG><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ggregg79@yahoo.com href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">Gregg Gordon</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=davidjohnson1451@comcast.net
href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">David Johnson</A> ; <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace]
AWARE flyer for Quad Day</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>"Respectfully" Really? Who am I talking to?
A 3-year-old? No, I've known 3-year-olds. They're more
convincing.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Are
you insincere, or just obtuse? You tell me. The only thing more
transparent than your insincerity is your ineffectiveness. I've been to
your meetings. My one word description -- LONELY. I've seen your
tv show. Alex Jones without the entertainment. My God, you're a
joke. Am I now or have I ever been a communist? Are you
serious? Why would I tell you? You're a virus. You're
cancer. You're death to anything you've ever been involved with.
If you think I would expose my friends to that, add insane to virus and
cancer.<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Man,
you so missed your chance at civility. You want respect? You're a
loose tooth. You're a canker sore. You're a barnacle, but not so
easily gotten rid of. You're dog shit on my shoe.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>I'm
out of your sandbox now. It's all yours.<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
David Johnson <davidjohnson1451@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Peace-discuss
<peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon
<ggregg79@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:05
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1059287574>
<DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Calm down Greg,</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>I could say something smart ass like
</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>" your not my type ",</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B> but seriously, I was just curious to
see if you are involved in the community or not </B></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman">.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>No need to be so paranoid just becasue we may
disagree on something.</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=ggregg79@yahoo.com href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">Gregg Gordon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=davidjohnson1451@comcast.net
href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">David Johnson</A> ; <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace]
AWARE flyer for Quad Day</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Why?
Do you want to stalk me?<BR>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
David Johnson <<A href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Peace-discuss <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>>;
Gregg Gordon <<A href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, August
28, 2013 10:33 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1059287574>
<DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Well Greg,</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>I am truely sorry that you feel that
way.</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Discussion / debate are at times necessary for
understanding.</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>No one threatened you or cursed at you or
disrespected you, so I am not certain what you mean when you stated that "
Its' impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace
.."</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Some of us stated our views and wanted
clarification of some of your statements, so I really do not understand
why you feel the way you do.</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>What organizations are you involved with locally
?</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>Respectfully</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=ggregg79@yahoo.com href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">Gregg Gordon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=galliher@illinois.edu
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">Carl G. Estabrook</A> ; <A
title=brussel@illinois.edu href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Brussel, Morton K</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace]
AWARE flyer for Quad Day</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Well,
I see it's impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace, even on
Peace-discuss. That's a shame. It's not just the unnecessary
and uncalled for hostility, unpleasant but manageable. But you won't
even argue with me. You put words in my mouth that I never said, and
then you argue with that. That's pointless.<BR><BR>But you've made
your points, and you've made mine as well. When you might have
convinced me, instead you alienated me. I don't know in what school of
activism you learned that tactic, but I question its effectiveness.
All you succeeded in doing is in making me marvel at the lack of mental
discipline required to obtain a Ph.D.<BR><BR>As to the other questions
hanging out there, there are any number of websites you can go to --
freerepublic.com, redstate.com. I find the stuff too sickening to
quote myself, but you'll see that you fit right in. And yes, I do
belong to some groups here. I would probably belong to yours, if
only you weren't in it.<BR>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Carl G. Estabrook
<galliher@illinois.edu><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "Brussel, Morton K"
<brussel@illinois.edu> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Gregg Gordon
<ggregg79@yahoo.com>; Peace-discuss
<peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:47
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1059287574>
<DIV>I've thought for a while that the fall-back position of American
liberalism, as it surrendered to the neoliberal onslaught, was a sort of
hysterical anti-racism.<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Walter Benn Michaels argued for something like that in his "The
Trouble with Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore
Inequality" (2005).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>He refined the argument in subsequent articles. "...Well, I wrote the
book four or five years ago and I know more about it now than I did then.
So yeah, that’s true, the book is in a certain sense a response to what
seemed to me very visible on the surface, but I had much less of a
sense of how that situation came about. One of the things that’s been
useful—I know it’s been useful for me, but I think it’s actually be useful
in general for at least some people on the Left in thinking about
these issues—has been the popularization of the concept of neoliberalism,
which has given us a better ability to periodize the history of capitalism
and especially of events since World War II." - [See more at: <<A
href="http://jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/#sthash.ArGHlaip.dpuf"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/#sthash.ArGHlaip.dpuf</A>>]</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Gordon is not untypical. --CGE</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 27, 2013, at 9:36 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <<A
href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">brussel@illinois.edu</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=yiv1059287574Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">From someone who is on this anti-war,
anti-imperialist list, this argument is sick!! I.e., that one should not
slam the current despicable president because he is black (somewhat).
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--mkb<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 27, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:</DIV><BR
class=yiv1059287574Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Well, not exactly the reasoned responses that might lead to
a meeting of the minds that I was hoping for, but as Lincoln said, "We
must use the tools we have." At least it allows me to be
brief.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>No,
I was not trying to imply that, and I did not imply that. My
purpose was not to discuss Obama's policies, foreign or domestic, or
what constitutional amendments our (in other contexts) racist Founding
Fathers left us he may or may not have violated. That's another
discussion.</SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>But in your own ways, you illustrate my point perfectly.
Because I also read right-wing blogs, just to try to figure out how
they think, and take my word, they're some pretty vicious
racists. And I find the tone and even the language you two have
employed here indistinguishable from what I find there. I find
that amazing. And to the extent those blogs remind me of nothing
so much as a lynch mob, I find it more than amazing. I find it
appalling. I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but for an
anti-racism group, that seems to be taking it too far.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px">Cornell
West notwithstanding, most of the black people I know like Obama and
are proud that he is president, and black turnout in the most recent
election tells me my friends are not outliers. It seems to me an
anti-racism effort would be wise to take that into account.
That's the only thing I wanted to discuss.</DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR></DIV>
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style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR></DIV>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
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<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Johnson <<A
href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Peace-discuss <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>>;
Gregg Gordon <<A href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">ggregg79@yahoo.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday,
August 27, 2013 3:13 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss]
[Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1059287574>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Gee Greg,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>I hope your not trying to imply that
becasue Obama is African American that he should be given a blank
check to commit war crimes and impoverish Working Americans,
especially African American Workers ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>This is EXACTLEY what the 1% ruling class
of this country hoped for when they recruited and helped get Obama
elected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Frankly, while we are on the subject,
some of the harshest critics of Obama have been Cornell West and Black
Agenda Report.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Not to mention that if you research
Obama's REAL history, you will see that he has NO common experience
with the average African American in the U.S.. or for that matter any
Working American.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=ggregg79@yahoo.com href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com">Gregg
Gordon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=brussel@illinois.edu href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Brussel, Morton K</A> ; <A
title=galliher@illinois.edu href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">Estabrook, Carl G</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net%20List" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net%20List">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 27, 2013
12:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss]
[Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>I realize I'm probably opening a can of worms with this,
but I've been wondering for a long time and all the March on
Washington stuff this weekend brought it back to mind.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Why
does an organization whose purpose is to fight racism so often speak
with such hostility toward our first black president? It's
obviously counter-intuitive, but I wonder if it also might not be
counterproductive.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>Gregg
Gordon<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "Brussel, Morton K"
<<A href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">brussel@illinois.edu</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "Estabrook, Carl G" <<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> "<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>
List" <<A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>>;
"<A href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</A>" <<A
href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace@anti-war.net">peace@anti-war.net</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday,
August 25, 2013 9:39 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace]
[Peace-discuss] AWARE flyer for Quad Day<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574y_msg_container><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1059287574>
<DIV>I would add that this administration is now specifically
threatening, and waging covert activities against, Iran and Syria,
two countries of no threat to the U.S., but who are seen by this
administration as a threat to "our national interests", that of
corporate America and its clients.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--kb<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But in any case a useful statement. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 25, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:</DIV><BR
class=yiv1059287574Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574BodyFragment><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV class=yiv1059287574PlainText>[The flyer is attached. Comments
are welcome. The text is as follows.]<BR><BR><BR>The Anti-War
Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana (AWARE)<BR><BR>AWARE was
founded immediately after the attacks of September 11, 2001, by
residents of Champaign-Urbana and members of the University of
Illinois, who saw that the U.S. government would use those crimes
as an excuse to carry on and expand its wars for the control of
Middle East energy resources. For a dozen years members and
friends of AWARE have worked to end the killing by informing their
fellow citizens of the real nature of the "war on terrorism," in
opposition to the largest and most sophisticated propaganda
campaign in history, conducted by the Bush and Obama
administrations, and directed at the American people.<BR><BR>Today
the U.S. government is threatening, invading, and occupying
countries in a vast circle with a 2500-mile radius around the
Persian Gulf, from north Africa to the borders of India and China,
a region sometimes called the "Greater Middle East." (The U.S.
military calls it "Central Command.") This region has the world's
greatest concentration of oil and natural gas, and our government
is spending hundreds of billions of dollars, month after month, to
control it. Control and not just access to these energy resources
is what our government demands. We in fact import little of our
own oil supplies from the Mideast - most of our imported oil comes
from the western hemisphere, notably Canada and Venezuela - but
control of world energy supplies gives the U.S. an unparalleled
advantage over our economic rivals in Europe and
Asia.<BR><BR>President Obama is killing men, women, and children
around the world to "fight terrorism," he claims, but as Noam
Chomsky explains, “The Obama administration is dedicated to
increasing terrorism ... it’s doing it all over the world. Obama
... is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists ... The
drone assassination campaigns ... are just part of it; special
forces operations and so on, all of these operations, they are
terror operations.” The U.S. Special Operations Command - in fact
a 25,000-member private army run by the president - are American
death squads, who by their own account are operating in more than
a hundred countries around the world. No wonder we are hated in
those countries.<BR><BR>If you object to the Obama
administration's conducting illegal and unjustified war - and
lying about the reasons for it - join us. AWARE meets every Sunday
evening 5-6pm at the White Horse Inn on in Champaign, near the
UIUC campus. We discuss the war and plan activities like the
following:<BR>~ Street demonstrations. For more than a decade
AWARE has conducted demonstrations and distributed information
about the war; they now occur on the first Saturday of every
month, 2-4pm, at Main and Neil Streets in downtown Champaign. All
are welcome to join us.<BR>~ Information tables. At the Urbana
Farmers' Market and other public events, like the Sweet Corn
Festival and the Taste of Champaign, AWARE has tables with free
printed information on the war and books, t-shirts, buttons and
bumper stickers at cost.<BR>~ Television programs. AWARE produces
a weekly hour of discussion on the war, "AWARE on the Air," seen
Tuesdays at 10pm on Urbana Public Television <<A
href="http://www.urbanapublictelevision.org/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.urbanapublictelevision.org/</A>>. The
program is recorded unrehearsed at noon on Tuesdays in the UPTV
studios. Members and friends of AWARE are invited to attend and
participate in the discussion.<BR>~ Articles in the local media.
Letters to the Editor in the Champaign-Urbana News-Gazette and
even the Daily Illini are one of the few ways to join a general
political discussion locally.<BR>~ Demands to elected
representatives. People in Champaign-Urbana are represented in
Congress by Senators Dick Durbin and Mark Kirk, and by
Representative Rodney Davis. All three support the
administration's wars and assassinations - and are in fact urging
Obama to expand the killing. You can register your opinion by
calling their Washington DC offices, which can be reached at
202-224-3121. (Say that you are calling from Illinois' 13th
Congressional District.)<BR>~ Internet presence. AWARE conducts
two email mailing lists, which you can join on the websites:
<<A href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace</A>>
for announcements, and, for discussion of the war, <<A
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A>>.
You can join the discussion on our Facebook page: <<A
href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/305897426305/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>https://www.facebook.com/groups/305897426305/</A>>.<BR><BR>AWARE
honors the whistleblowers - Manning, Assange, Snowden<BR>and
others - persecuted by the Obama
administration<BR><BR>###<BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574BodyFragment><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
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class=yiv1059287574PlainText><BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1059287574BodyFragment><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV
class=yiv1059287574PlainText>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss
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