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A person is not a meme. <br>
<br>
I would not advise railing against Chomsky in this forum.<br>
<br>
I would advise careful reading of what Chomsky has said and is saying.<br>
<br>
I have been able to learn quite a bit from Chomsky even<br>
though i dont agree with him on everything.<br>
<br>
Chomsky has come against the Obama administration very strongly.<br>
Chomsky is not the enemy. Some admirers of Chomsky have questions
about 9/11.<br>
<br>
The best thing to do to get some degree of success is that you make your<br>
point with clarity and civility and then you back off and see what the <br>
people have to say and think about it.<br>
<br>
It's pointless to berate folks into alienation, <br>
no matter how much fun it seems to be.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/20/13 22:47, Stephen Francis wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1379688445.65109.YahooMailNeo@web120104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-size: 16px; background-color: transparent;"><span><span><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">You know, I think
I've stumbled on to something here that directly links Chomskyism, Mr.
Johnson's remark "Somehow the amerikan society gains various benefits
from the </span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">memes</span></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">and clings to
the them, even defends the virus from threats." and the man I describe
staring into his official orders to go to Vietnam after boot camp in
1969. (I also had orders to go to Vietnam). </span></span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;">For various unfortunate (and
gullible) reasons I volunteered for the draft in 1969 and found myself
in a training unit of guys (gang members) mostly from the LA County
jail who were given a choice of long prison sentences (probably drug
related) or go in the Army (Vietnam). By the end of the training they
had mostly been transformed into yes-sir no-sir lock steps. They didn't
even know what hit them, but the Army did. When the training was over
we were all assigned MOS's and if it was infantry, that only meant one
thing,... going to Vietnam. The 'Army' knew that the vast majority,
given a choice to refuse the orders and face all the consequences that
entailed, would succumb to the orders. Decades of institutionalized
and covert mind control now was to take its hold. The fodder of war
was fully created. </span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;">I hypothesize that the fear of
jail (for refusing orders) was just as great as the fear of facing the
wrath of your family and friends back home who accuse you of
'deserting' you duty. They had been backed into a corner and Vietnam
was the only escape. It was the easiest route out.</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">How does this relate
to </span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;">Chomsky</span><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">. To cut to the
chase here, I hypothesize that Chomsky's fame is not because of his
eloquent descriptions of unfair government practices (thousands of
scholars could take his place), but is EXACTLY FROM his very stance on
JFK and 9/11 Truth. </span></span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;"><span>Those
who support his views on 9/11 Truth have been backed into a corner just
as those LA gangsters have. They say... ohhh ....9/11 is not
important.... no big deal...Chomsky! To elevate the importance of 9/11
brings to much attention to Israel and other countries (and
Silverstein, Hellerstein, Feinberg, Feith, Wolfowitz, Zakheim,
Chertoff, Mukasey, Powell, Hauer, Grossman, Zelikov, Brennan, Abrams,
Libby, Abramoff, Giuliani, Eisenberg, Kerik, Holbrooke, Deutch, Ledeen,
Lewin, Lowy, Murdoch, Greenberg, Kroll, Bremmer, Krongard, Carlucci,
Fleischer, Greenspan and the Rothschilds just to mention a few).
Chomsky is a perfect pressure release valve. Is he a highly effective
way to control the message?Does Chomsky know this?</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;"><span>Is
Chomsky just another method by which the message of the Progressives is
subverted? Is he a meme?</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;">Wayne
Madsen has done extensive research on the topic and may have similar
points to make at the conference involving Obama, BIC (Business
International Corp), Chicago, the SDS and the Weather Underground just
to name on area of research. Remember the Students for a Democratic
Society (1960-69)? and its relationship to Bill Ayers (Weather
Underground, a faction of SDS).... well his father was Thomas Ayers,
the CEO of Commonwealth Edison which can then be easily linked to the
Ford Foundation, Trilateral Commission...etc Research the Weather
Underground and the funding of organizations by the CIA and others to
control the Progressive message from within. </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 16px; background-color: transparent;"><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">Who is Noam Chomsky
really? Is Chomsky a </span><span
style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;">meme</span><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);"> that Mr. Johnson is
referring to?</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 16px; background-color: transparent;"><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-weight: bold;">WDWS NewsTalk 1400
will be running many ads throughout today, tomorrow and Sunday morning
about the Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference thanks to the international
support for this conference we are reveiving.</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-weight: bold;">please direct your
questions to this address also.</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-weight: bold;">email:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@midwest911truth.com">info@midwest911truth.com</a></span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-weight: bold;">Thank you,</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-weight: bold;">Steve Francis</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><span
style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div
style="font-family: 'times new roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> James Fetzer
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu"><jfetzer@d.umn.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> David Gehrig
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org"><david-cu@nukulele.org></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Stephen Francis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com"><stephenf1113@yahoo.com></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">"sftalk@yahoogroups.com"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com"><sftalk@yahoogroups.com></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org">"andrew@funferal.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org"><andrew@funferal.org></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">"peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday,
September 20, 2013 7:20 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [sftalk]
[OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22,
Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv4297075501">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font class="yiv4297075501Apple-style-span" size="4">David,.</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv4297075501Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<font class="yiv4297075501Apple-style-span" size="4">But I DO NOT
"promote racism"--and by issuing more and more slanderous remarks, you
have not shown that I do. I have asked REPEATEDLY for proof of
allegations like this or that I am wrong about any of the issues I have
addressed. NO ONE HAS DONE THAT EVEN ONCE. It appears to me that you
are an intellectual mediocrity who makes shit up that he cannot prove.</font>
<div><font class="yiv4297075501Apple-style-span" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv4297075501Apple-style-span" size="4">There is no
good reason to believe that I am a racist BECAUSE I AM NOT. On the
other hand, there is a lot of evidence that many prominent Jews regard
themselves as "the master race". A lot of people would read this quote
and mistakenly suppose it was said by Hitler. On the contrary, it was
made by an Israeli Prime Minister. I suspect that you yourself share
these sentiments:</font></div>
<div><span class="yiv4297075501"
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times;">
<table width="549" height="71" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="TOP" width="100%" height="70">
<dl>
<dt><font size="+1">"Our race is the Master Race. We are
divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races
as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races
are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as
human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our
earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The
masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."</font></dt>
</dl>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</span></div>
<div class="yiv4297075501gmail_extra"><dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1">As Tex Marre writes, "In his memoirs of his years in the
White House, former President Jimmy Carter wrote that there could have
been peace between the Arabs and the Israelis had it not been for the
bigoted, Nazi-like racial views of Israeli's Prime Minister Menachem
Begin.</font></dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"> </dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1">"Begin, Carter recalled, believed the Jews were a Master
Race, a holy people superior to Egyptians and Arabs. Begin also
believed that God wanted the Jews to own the land, so there was
absolutely no basis for peace. The Jews lusted after the land and
intended to have it. Period."</font></dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1"><br>
</font></dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1">Which seems to me to be your style of argument and debate.
Presuppose the crucial issues attack anyone who disagrees with you as
a racist, when there is more reason to believe that you and yours are
racists than those you attack. You are not only an intellectual
mediocrity but a moral disgrace, sad to say.</font></dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1"><br>
</font></dt>
<dt
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium;"><font
size="+1">Jim</font></dt>
<br>
<div class="yiv4297075501gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:52
AM, David Gehrig <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv4297075501gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div>What they do not bring to a person is the right to promote
racism, as you do. The Jews didn't put you in Vietnam, or in jail. But
you consider yourself free to slander them in a racist way all the same
by supporting and promoting the neo-Nazi game of Holocaust denial. </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4297075501h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@%<</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 19, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div><span>You've confirmed my point by making light of it...you
have no idea what those experiences bring to a person.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Gehrig <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Stephen
Francis <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>>; "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:andrew@funferal.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org">andrew@funferal.org</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:andrew@funferal.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org">andrew@funferal.org</a>>; "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
Jim Fetzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu">jfetzer@d.umn.edu</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday,
September 19, 2013 7:07 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[sftalk] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference,
Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>What's disgraceful, Fetzer, is you. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd like to believe that at some point Steve will figure out
why. But as long as you keep him barking-mad up the wrong tree, I don't
expect it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, by the way, Dr O-boyo, can I shoot at you? That will
render all of your opinions correct, apparently. Cheaper than a second
PhD!</div>
<div><br>
@%<</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 19, 2013, at 8:52 PM, Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>From James Fetzer Ph.D.<br>
<br>
</div>
It is disgraceful to see an academician abuse his position to curtail<br>
</div>
debate on the most important event of the 21st C. by "installing<br>
</div>
filters". He dismisses my research WITHOUT EVEN STUDYING<br>
</div>
THE EVIDENCE. I am quite confident he has not read any of the<br>
links that I have provided about 9/11 or Sandy Hook or the Boston<br>
bombing, for example. By embracing the moon landings without<br>
</div>
considering the arguments, he is embracing the occurrence of a<br>
series of events that are neither physically nor aerodynamically<br>
possible--very much as THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT was<br>
based upon any number of additional impossibilities. This is the<br>
easy way out: avoid the evidence and the issues at all cost since<br>
they may show that beliefs he has entertained are indefensible.<br>
<br>
</div>
He does not even appreciate the hypocrisy in attacking me without<br>
bothering to study any of my arguments on any of these questions.<br>
I am overwhelmed with contempt for the contemptible fashion in<br>
which he obviates the standards of reason and rationality by the <br>
expedient of cutting off discussion and debate and adopting the<br>
ostrich policy. When there is too much heat, he shuts down the<br>
kitchen. The man is a perfect example of an intellectual bully <br>
and a coward who abuses his position to give a false impression<br>
of principle, when he is demonstrating that he possesses none.<br>
And that is manifest in his infatuation with Noam Chomsky, where <br>
he seems oblivious of his mentor's gross intellectual deficiencies:<br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;">
<table style="padding: 0px;">
<tbody style="width: 655px;">
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="">
<h3 style="margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D2gFB4VjcmJw&sa=U&ei=yqA7UrnTN-nlyQHen4CwAg&ved=0CBsQtwIwAA&sig2=Y3d6Ng9d6rzMZJhpTO7D3g&usg=AFQjCNGem6eKja7dt5Kg7fN7bpzhbDc48w"
style="color: rgb(40, 98, 197); outline-width: 0px;"><b>Fetzer on
Chomsky</b>: Linguistics & 9/11 - <b>YouTube</b></a></h3>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 4px 8px 0pt 0pt;" valign="top"
width="1">
<div style="width: 116px; min-height: 65px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D2gFB4VjcmJw&sa=U&ei=yqA7UrnTN-nlyQHen4CwAg&ved=0CBwQuAIwAFAB&sig2=Y3d6Ng9d6rzMZJhpTO7D3g&usg=AFQjCNGem6eKja7dt5Kg7fN7bpzhbDc48w"
style="color: rgb(40, 98, 197); outline-width: 0px;">
<div><img moz-do-not-send="true" alt=""
style="border-width: 0px;" width="116" align="middle" border="0"></div>
<div
style="padding: 1px 3px; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; text-align: right;">►
7:15</div>
</a></div>
</td>
<td style="padding-top: 1px;" valign="top"><cite>www.<b>youtube</b>.com/watch?v=2gFB4VjcmJw</cite><span><span><span>Aug
2, 2007</span> - <span>7 min</span> - <span>Uploaded by Yoryevrah</span></span><br>
James H. <b>Fetzer</b>, prof. of philosophy (U.of Minnesota, Duluth,
ret.), critiques Noam <b>Chomsky's</b> <b>...</b></span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table style="padding: 0px;">
<tbody style="width: 641px;">
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="">
<h3 style="margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWKKDmuqMOaA&sa=U&ei=yqA7UrnTN-nlyQHen4CwAg&ved=0CCAQtwIwAQ&sig2=ei2yazg-wnPPI_iUwo63kA&usg=AFQjCNFdupSrkUFN1s3Ft1sIY29AmgrGfA"
style="color: rgb(40, 98, 197); outline-width: 0px;">Dr. Jim <b>Fetzer</b>/
Noam <b>Chomsky's</b> faulty LINGUISTICS <b>...</b> - <b>YouTube</b></a></h3>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 4px 8px 0pt 0pt;" valign="top"
width="1">
<div style="width: 116px; min-height: 65px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWKKDmuqMOaA&sa=U&ei=yqA7UrnTN-nlyQHen4CwAg&ved=0CCEQuAIwAVAB&sig2=ei2yazg-wnPPI_iUwo63kA&usg=AFQjCNFdupSrkUFN1s3Ft1sIY29AmgrGfA"
style="color: rgb(40, 98, 197); outline-width: 0px;">
<div><img moz-do-not-send="true" alt=""
style="border-width: 0px;" width="116" align="middle" border="0"></div>
<div
style="padding: 1px 3px; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; text-align: right;">►
27:21</div>
</a></div>
</td>
<td style="padding-top: 1px;" valign="top"><cite>www.<b>youtube</b>.com/watch?v=WKKDmuqMOaA</cite><span><span><span>Apr
27, 2007</span> - <span>27 min</span> - <span>Uploaded by paulagloria</span></span><br>
Noam <b>Chomsky</b> has let down many truth activists and given clear
indication of working with <b>...<br>
<br>
</b></span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;">Jim<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;">James H.
Fetzer, Ph.D.<br>
McKnight Professor Emeritus<br>
University of Minnesota Duluth<br>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-size: 12px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.d.umn.edu/%7Ejfetzer"
style="color: rgb(40, 98, 197); outline-width: 0px;">http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>>; "<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
Jim Fetzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu">jfetzer@d.umn.edu</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday,
September 19, 2013 5:34 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[sftalk] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference,
Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div><span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div><span>You (Mr. </span><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;">Ó Baoill) speak so
eloquently in your lofty address to the issues of the day. You and all
your fellow Chomskyites speak the same language in that your really not
communicating ideas but rather reinforcing each others Chomskyism. It
must feel good and you are all so proud of yourselves as you flitter
amongst prose that glitters in the eye. You've probably never been
handcuffed and thrown down on the floor of a cage inside a dangerous
prison because of your glittery flittery. You've never been shot at
with rifles held by moronic souls who knew no better than to do what
their daddy told em. You've never been hungry or felt the mad pounding
in your chest as your heartbeat races knowing that your next word will
mean freedom or jail. You've never seen the look on a grown man's face
looking into the sentence on a official looking piece of paper that
says Vietnam is your next home. You've never heard the screams of
nightmares of groan men as they fight back the demons of heroin.
Please continue with your Chomsky bedside manner and keep your eyes in
the clouds of academic loft, because we know where the comfort of your
words come from. </span></div>
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Dr Andrew Ó Baoill <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:andrew@funferal.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org">andrew@funferal.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>;
Jim Fetzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu">jfetzer@d.umn.edu</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday,
September 19, 2013 4:14 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[sftalk] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference,
Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div><span> </span>
<div>
<div>I was travelling, so my response on this is delayed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've kept out of Truther threads for a variety of reasons,
but I feel compelled to interject, in case silence be taken as implying
consent and complicity.<br>
<br>
On 9/11 Trutherism, I've largely agreed with Chomsky's analysis - that
the implication of a 'massive conspiracy' has too many moving parts to
pass Occam's razor, and that in any event, it distracts from actually
useful politics, as it heads down a rabbit hole. (Incidentally, I
understand that there will be responses claiming that the the Truthers
are agnostic on the question of a central conspiracy, that it's a
grouping of analyses, etc. I'm not going to try to get into any of that
because, frankly, I have neither the time nor interest. Hence, my
silence until now, like, I suspect, many if my comrades on the list.)</div>
<div><br>
However, with this latest thread we move into both offensive and
ridiculous territory.<br>
<br>
Ridiculous first: Stephen says that James 'Jim' Fetzer represents his
views on every issue he can think of. Fetzer's summary of his own
beliefs include a claim that Sandy Hook was staged to garner support
for gun control. That's actually more offensive than ridiculous. I
trust the sane members of this list don't need me to elaborate. On a
lighter note Fetzer, bless his soul, clings to his belief that the moon
landings were staged. That one I did laugh at.<br>
<br>
I'll jump to my main point: I'm implementing filters to block and 'send
to trash' all future mail from Mr. Francis (and, pre-emptively, Mr.
Fetzer). It saps my time, energy, and the value I get from the
Socialist Forum lists. I suspect that others have done similarly. This
mail is not an attempt or offer to enter into dialogue with Francis or
his like. The method of debate of professed generalized conspiracy
theorists fails several of the basic rules of debate, including the
building of trust with other participants, a desire to reach consensus
with those of disparate approaches, and a rational approach to argument.<br>
<br>
I feel it important, though, to first go on record, so Mr. Francis and
his ilk not be able read silence as acceptance. <br>
<br>
Fetzer's Holocaust 'revisionism' is anti-semitic (and, more broadly,
anti-humanist), in that it distracts from central questions about the
totalizing violence and hatred that drove the 'final solution' with
evasive and quibbling side issues that provide a nod and a wink to
fellow anti-semites, while leaving just enough room for deniability.
Fetzer is gracious enough to acknowledge 'abuse' by the Nazis, but
notably goes no further - and this is his own defense to a critical
audience. There are some attempts to muddy the water, to mimic actual
scholarship that seeks to add nuance and critical analysis to
narratives of the period, but to my mind, after viewing Fetzer's own
summary of his approach, the distinction is clear. In addition, as
Belden helpfully noted, it is possible (and, I'd suggest, important) to
distinguish criticism of Israel from anti-semitism.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know there are those on this list whose families have
directly suffered in the Holocaust. My own son's family lost many
members - and as genocides are intended to, those who survived were
displaced and lost any connection to the land that had been their home.
I cannot help but wonder - briefly, but not enough to desire a response
from Fetzer/Francis/etc. - if these 'revisionists' would apply a
similar logic to the Irish experience, and seek to erase the violence
that we were subjected to through the colonial experience.</div>
<div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: separate;"><span
style="text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; letter-spacing: normal; font-variant: normal; text-transform: none; font-style: normal; white-space: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight: normal;">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrew</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dr. Andrew Ó Baoill<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:andrew@funferal.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org">andrew@funferal.org</a></div>
</div>
</span></span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 17 MFómh 2013, at 23:20, Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style=""><span> </span>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>I'm passing Jim's
response to David Gehrig on to the group(s)...</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>and
would like to reiterate my enthusiastic support for James Fetzer. I
have much to learn from him. He and I are on the same page every issue
that I can think of.</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I
again take exception to remarks like the one below:</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><span>"Steve
Francis, by his selection of Jim Fetzer and Kevin Barrett, has made it
clear that he has aligned himself with the Jew-hating wing of
trooferdom."</span><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><span
style="font-size: 16px;">I reiterate my support for the following
JEWISH organizations.</span></span></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.nkusa.org/"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">NKUSA</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/satmar.htm"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">JewsNotZionists</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-against-zionism.html"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">JewsAgainstZion</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://rense.com/general54/thank.htm"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">JewsAgainstZionism</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.ijsn.net/home/"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">International
Jewish AntiZionist Network</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Jews-Solidarity-Against-Zionism/318506794911703"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">American
Jews Solidarity Against Zionism</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=762"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">Rabbis
Against Zionism</a><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">, </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.israelversusjudaism.org/"
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">IsraelVersusJudaism</a><font
color="#353535">. These people created their organizations for a
specific reason of which they are highly dedicated. </font><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span
style="color: rgb(53, 53, 53); font-size: 16px;"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">See Jim's response below:</span><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> James Fetzer <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu">jfetzer@d.umn.edu</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Stephen
Francis <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday,
September 17, 2013 7:34 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22,
Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Steve,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kindly post this as my response to the completely
unwarranted claims made by: <span
style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="min-height: 16px;">
<td
style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; white-space: nowrap; vertical-align: top;">
<table
style="border-collapse: collapse; table-layout: fixed;" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<div><span
style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold; white-space: nowrap; vertical-align: top; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br>
David Gehrig</span> <span style="vertical-align: top;"><font
color="#555555"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>>
appears to be the epitome of arrogance <br>
driven by ignorance. I</font><font color="#555555">n his completely
gratuitous dismissal of my positions, which <br>
he supports exclusively by a very odd quote taken </font><font
color="#555555">out of context. Does he not <br>
know that the figure 6,000,000 was being bandied about as early as 1890</font> <font
color="#555555">and has <br>
'a theological or ideological origin. It has nothing to do with the
history of WWII, <br>
including of </font><font color="#555555">course the Holocaust, which
he may not realized would not take place <br>
for another 40 or 50 years. But spare me more about the Holocaust!<br>
<br>
I </font><font color="#555555">have spelled out my position on a very
wide range of complex and controversial <br>
subjects, about which it </font><font color="#555555">appears he knows
nothing at all. If he would like to show <br>
me wrong, THEN SHOW ME WRONG. Pick the subject on </font>which he
thinks I am <br>
most likely to be wrong. Explain my position and why I hold it, then
spell out what <br>
he thinks I have wrong and why. I find it completely insulting
to everyone whom he <br>
addresses that he can make pompous pronouncements with no proof! <br>
<br>
<font color="#555555">Here is a thumbnail sketch
of my positions on issues that have arisen on the thread: </font><br>
<font color="#555555"> <br>
</font><span
style="color: rgb(53, 53, 53); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal;"><font>9/11
was not committed by 19 Islamic terrorists who hijacked four commercial
airliners and outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the
world;
<div>the Wellstone plane crash was not an
accident, as the NTSB reported, but was very carefully contrived for
the GOP to take control of the Senate and launch wars;</div>
<div>the Holocaust has been exaggerated for
political reasons, including war crimes by the allies in the form of
collective punishment of German cities, which they needed to conceal;</div>
<div>JFK was hit four times--in the throat from
in front, in the back from behind, and twice in the head (from behind
and from the right-front)--where Lee Oswald didn't do it;</div>
<div>the moon landing was easier to pull off than
most realize, as the film, "Capricorn I", releals, where Stanly Kubrick
seems to have faked the landings for the government;</div>
<div>the Boston bombing was an obvious fraud,
where the Craft International perps had been outed by the alternative
press already the evening of the event itself; and,</div>
<div>the Sandy Hook event was staged to promote
gun control, which fell short but not for a lack of trying. </div>
<div>Check out <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/fetzer/"
title="http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/fetzer/"
style="color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/fetzer/</a> for
my and other's articles about them. </div>
<div>If anyone thinks I am wrong about any of
this, just take a look at the evidence and tell me what I have wrong
and how you know, so I can take your arguments into account. </div>
<div>Most of us don't have the luxury or the
background or the ability to take this on, but I am a professional
scholar who has been devoting himself to their study since my
retirement.</div>
<div>I am not happy with what we have found, but
the core of rationality is to adapt your beliefs to the available
relevant evidence. For an explanation of how this can be done, consider</div>
<div>"Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11
and JFK", which provides an introduction to "inference to the best
explanation" in reasoning about cases like these at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.d.umn.edu/%7Ejfetzer/fetzerexpandedx.pdf"
style="color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">http://www.d.umn.edu/%7Ejfetzer/fetzerexpandedx.pdf</a></div>
<div>I have benefited from collaborating with
authorities in different domains, such as a world authority on the
human brain and expert on wound ballistics, a Ph.D. in physics who is
also an M.D. and board certified in radiation oncology;</div>
<div>an M.D. who was present when JFK was brought
into Trauma Room #1 and two days later was responsible for the
treatment of his alleged assassin in Trauma Room #2, a legendary photo
analyst and another Ph.D. in electromagnetism.</div>
<div>In relation to 9/11, I have similarly
benefitted from collaboration with physicists, pilots, engineers
(structural, mechanical, aeronautical, and chemical), which has enabled
me to sort things out on the basis of experts in areas where I am not.</div>
<div>Since David insists that I have "put my
reputation through a wood chipper", as he so cavalierly puts it, let
him choose the subject among those I've listed and SHOW WHAT I HAVE
WRONG. He can pick the subject and explain what I say about it and
why, then explain what I have wrong and how he knows. I don't think he
can prevail on any of these subjects and if he cannot, then we will
have proof positive he is the ignoramus who has no idea what he's
talking about, which is already apparent to me. So he can take up my
challenge or crawl back into the hole he came out of. The world will
know he's a total fraud.</div>
<div>Jim</div>
</font></span></span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</span> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:15 PM, David Gehrig <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div>I'm not going to get caught up in a tedious cycle of
reply to reply to reply, mostly because Jim Fetzer has already done me
the favor of putting his reputation here through the wood chipper, so
thoroughly in fact that there are hardly any large chunks left that
need addressing. So here's my sole reply to this thread.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I long ago decided that there was an upper limit to
the politeness a Holocaust denier can expect, so I hope you don't
expect that through some sense of faux collegiality I will pretend I
don't notice how Fetzer's remarks reek of eau d'Naziboy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is Fetzer's argument about the number of
Holocaust dead based on? He points to a website article of the form
"What is it with the lying Jews and their fetish about the number six
million? They're polluting the minds of white children." Here's a
direct quote from the article Fetzer found so persuasive: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"The primary function of this insidious global
propaganda campaign is to -- quite simply -- brainwash non-Jews into a
state of abject fear and paralysis while we are ideologically,
economically, and physically enslaved by the Jewish tribe."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, remember, that's an article that Fetzer not only
doesn't find racially problematic, not only finds agreeable, not only
doesn't set off his racism alarm, but finds so sunnily agreeable to his
worldview that he actually recommended it to the rest of this list as
an example of the sort of thing that shapes his thoughts on the topic.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've long felt that 9/11 trooferdom, while always
quite stupid, was not inherently antisemitic. It has its Jew-haters,
sure, but that doesn't mean everyone.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steve Francis, by his selection of Jim Fetzer and
Kevin Barrett, has made it clear that he has aligned himself with the
Jew-hating wing of trooferdom. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The sad part is, I don't think that Steve Francis is
motivated by antisemitism. I just think he's so completely credulous,
he doesn't do the most rudimentary gut-check of the antisemitic slop
people like Fetzer feed him.</div>
<div><br>
@%<</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On Sep 17, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div><span>This is James Fetzer's response to David
Gehrig's post (below)</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> ----- Forwarded Message -----<br>
<font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
James Fetzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:jfetzer@d.umn.edu">jfetzer@d.umn.edu</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Stephen Francis <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:49 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: Fw: [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept.
22, Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Someone is willfully misinterpreting, but that ain't
me. I am a Holocaust REVISIONIST,</div>
<div>because I believe we have inherited a grossly
exaggerated account of the events that</div>
<div>are alleged to have taken place at the end of WWII.
The number of alleged "victims" of</div>
<div>the Holocaust, 6,000,000, for example, appears to be
a number that has theological or</div>
<div>ideological origins and is not historically
accurate. See, for example, a study discussing</div>
<div>the origins of the 6,000,000 myth at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/">http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Moreover, the Nuremberg Tribunals appear to have
presented a biased case to convey</div>
<div>the impression that the Nazis were responsible for
the extensive starvation of inmates</div>
<div>at internment camps, when, as Robert Faurisson,
"Against Hollywoodism, Revisionism", </div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2012/02/against-hollywoodism-revisionism.html">http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2012/02/against-hollywoodism-revisionism.html</a>
has</div>
<div>explained, that was a consequence of Allied bombing
of German cities, which interdicted</div>
<div>railroad lines and made it impossible to resupply
the camps, leading to mass starvation.</div>
<div>Ironically, the Tribunals found that collective
punishment is a war crime, which the Allies</div>
<div>appear to have been keen to cover-up by attributing
the starvation to the Nazis instead.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are many other reasons to doubt the "official
account" of the Holocaust. I do not</div>
<div>DENY that Jews, gypsies and the mentally and
physically infirm were abused by Nazis,</div>
<div>but the nature of that abuse appears to have been
exaggerated for political purposes. It</div>
<div>is no coincidence that the allegation of being a
"Holocaust denier" is raised against any</div>
<div>one who is remotely critical of the actions or
policies of the government of Israel, which</div>
<div>may qualify as "anti-Zionist" but does not qualify
as "anti-Semitic". For more, I have a</div>
<div>
half-dozen or more interviews on "The Real Deal" discussing Holocaust
mythology at</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com/">http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com</a>.
Anyone can go there and do a search on "Holocaust".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I published an article about this question, "Is 9/11
research 'anti-Semitic'?" in 2009. It</div>
<div>is offensive that Zionist organizations and
individuals continue to attack all of us who</div>
<div>are trying to make sense of the evidence about the
Holocaust and to counter the false</div>
<div>account of history that these exaggerated attacks
entail, which play upon a sense of</div>
<div>Western guilt to manipulate the public to promote
the political agenda of Israel. There</div>
<div>is more that could be said here, but I would like to
think this is enough. I have most</div>
<div>recently laid out my views on these questions in an
article in Veterans Today 2013:</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04/anti-anti-semitism-and-the-search-for-historical-truth/">http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04/anti-anti-semitism-and-the-search-for-historical-truth/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div
style="font-style: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">----- Forwarded Message -----</span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Gehrig <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:david-cu@nukulele.org">david-cu@nukulele.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Stephen Francis <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
occupycu <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:occupyCU@lists.chambana.net">occupyCU@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
sftalk <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:sftalk@yahoogroups.com">sftalk@yahoogroups.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:40 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22,
Urbana Free Library<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>Is that the same Jim Fetzer who says the Nazis
only killed 600,000 Jews in the Holocaust, based on his willful
misinterpretation of an ICRC document? Why, yes it is. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You're not doing a very good job disentangling
yourself from the Holocaust denial movement, are you. </div>
<div><br>
@%<</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 17, 2013, at 6:28 AM, Stephen Francis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:stephenf1113@yahoo.com">stephenf1113@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<h2
style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);"><br>
</h2>
<h2
style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal;"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Hello all,</span></div>
<div
style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">The News Gazette has published an <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-09-16/sunday-conference-focus-911-attacks.html#comment-516074">article</a> (and
below) on The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference this Sunday at the Urbana
Free Library, in the auditorium from 1:30-4:45pm. Again, the speakers
are </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">three highly knowledgeable
experts on 9/11 Truth including James Fetzer Ph.D. (founder of </span><span
style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 127);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://911scholars.org/"
style="font-size: 13px; outline-width: 0px;">Scholars for 9/11 Truth</a><span
style="font-size: 13px;">)</span></span><span
style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);">,</span><span
style="font-size: 13px;"> Wayne Madsen (editor of </span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/"
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 127); font-size: 13px; outline-width: 0px;">WayneMadsenReport.com</a>,<span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 127); font-size: 16px;"> </span><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Washington D.C.</span><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 127); font-size: 13px;">)</span></span><span
style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(69, 69, 69);"> </span><span
style="font-size: 13px;">and Kevin Barrett (co-founder of the</span><span
style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(0, 0, 127);"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.mujca.com/"
style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(0, 0, 127); outline-width: 0px;">Muslim
Jewish Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth</a><span
style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 127);">). </span><span>The
conference is hosted by <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/uc911truth/">UC
9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign</a> and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://newsfollowup.com/midwest_911_truth_conference_champaign-urbana_september_2013_newsfollowup.htm">NewsFollowUp.com</a> ...
see Facebook <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="https://www.facebook.com/events/394502717338293/">Event</a> </span></span><span> email:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:info@midwest911truth.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:info@midwest911truth.com">info@midwest911truth.com</a></span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal;"><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 127);"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal;"><span><span
style="font-size: 13px;">
<div style="background-color: transparent;">The
world has changed dramatically since 9/11. Citizens of the U.S. have
seen a precipitous erosion in basic Constitutional <span
style="background-color: transparent;">rights since 9/11. This
usurpation of rights has been directly tied to the creation of
government entities and legislation, such as the </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">Department of </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">Homeland Security, the Patriot
Act, the Military Commissions Act, the NDAA and revelation of massive
surveillance of the American people</span><span
style="background-color: transparent;"> by NSA.</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;">The first component of the
conference will be to view the widely distributed and acclaimed
documentary film by the Architects & </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">Engineers for 9/11 Truth, '</span><span
style="background-color: transparent; font-style: italic;">Explosive
Evidence: Experts Speak Out</span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">'. Because </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.ae911truth.org/"
style="background-color: transparent; outline-width: 0px;">AE911Truth.org</a><span
style="background-color: transparent;"> is a highly significant leader
in the 9/11 </span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;">Truth movement, its influential
documentary deserves careful </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">scrutiny insofar its</span><span
style="background-color: transparent;"> conclusions are widely
regarded as providing crucial evidence for future legal action</span>. </div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;"><br>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</td>
<td valign="top"><span><img
moz-do-not-send="true"><br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</span></h2>
<div>
<table
style="color: rgb(53, 53, 53); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div
style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal;"><span><span
style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">James
Fetzer, Ph.D., will assess the A&E</span><span
style="background-color: transparent;"> documentary and report the
latest scientific findings about how it was done, where all sides agree
that</span> the Twin Towers could not have been brought down by the
impact of airliners and resulting fires.. His analysis of the science
of 9/11 will be complemented by Wayne Madsen's analysis of who was
responsible and why. Kevin Barrett will moderate and add his
perspective to all of these issues.
<br>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">We seek to </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">find answers to legitimate
questions about 9/11</span><span style="background-color: transparent;"> and
to enable credible prosecutors to bring the perpetrators for these acts
to </span></span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">justice. </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">There is a vast amount of
evidence gathered to support </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">this belief and has led to the
conclusion that neo-cons in the US were aided by the intelligence
services of other countries. Supporters</span><span
style="background-color: transparent;"> of the 9/11 Truth </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">movement, including local
members of UC 9/11 Truth Urbana Champaign, </span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">demand a new independent and
international investigation of 9/11.</span></span></div>
<br>
We invite all to attend. The conference is free and open to the public.
Thank youSteve Francis
<div style="background-color: transparent;"><span><span
style="background-color: transparent;">UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign
email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:info@midwest911truth.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:info@midwest911truth.com">info@midwest911truth.com</a></span></span></div>
<br>
<br>
News Gazette article:
<div
style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); background-color: transparent;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;">
<h2 style="color: rgb(53, 53, 53);">Sunday
conference to focus on 9/11 attacks</h2>
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69);"><span
style="background-color: transparent;"><br>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(53, 53, 53);"><span
style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119);">
<div><span>Mon, 09/16/2013 - 7:40pm</span> | <span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.news-gazette.com/author/news-gazette"
style="color: rgb(0, 51, 102); text-decoration: none; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">The
News-Gazette</a></span></div>
</span>
<div>
<div>URBANA — A conference planned this weekend in
Urbana will explore issues surrounding the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.</div>
<div>The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference will be held
at 1:30 p.m. Sunday in the auditorium of the Urbana Free Library, 210
W. Green St.</div>
<div>The event is sponsored by UC 9/11 Truth
Urbana-Champaign. (<span style="font-style: italic;">see Facebook</span>)</div>
<div>Admission is free and open to the public.</div>
<div>People who have been studying the events of
Sept. 11 will talk about their perspectives on the attacks.</div>
<div>"According to national and international polls,
nearly 30 percent of the population is skeptical of the 'official'
version of the events of 9/11," said Steve Francis of UC 9/11 Truth
Champaign-Urbana. "The 9/11 Commission Report is viewed as a cover-up
by a significant percentage of citizens and the 9/11 Truth Movement
seeks to find answers to these questions about the real cause of those
atrocities."</div>
<div>The conference will begin the presentation of a
documentary film, "Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out."</div>
<div>James Fetzer, the founder of Scholars for 9/11
Truth, will comment on the documentary and report on scientific
findings.</div>
<div>Wayne Madsen, editor of <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://waynemadsenreport.com/">WayneMadsenReport.com</a>, will
provide an analysis of who may have been responsible for the attacks
and why.</div>
<div>Kevin Barrett, co-founder of the
Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, will serve as
moderator and will add his perspective on the issues.</div>
<div>For more information on the event, call Fetzer
at <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" href="">608-354-4280</a>.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>OccupyCU mailing list</span><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
<br>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<div style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); min-height: 0px;">__._,_.___</div>
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