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I actually thought Rohn meant David Johnson not David Green but I <br>
will admit the ad hominem nature of my remarks.<br>
And I do really apologize - to the cats.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/28/2013 11:29 AM, David Green wrote:
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<div><span>Hey Rohn,</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>AWARE has had its issues, and I'll let others speak for
themselves; as far as me, I was never accused by anyone of being
disruptive, and I certainly was not--perhaps I should have tried harder
to be more so. It's amazing how such a story might spread, and I hope
you'll be careful about repeating such scurrilous allegations,
otherwise known as malicious gossip. I stopped attending AWARE meetings
in 2006 for personal reasons. Anyone who would accuse me of being
disruptive in that regard has an axe to grind in another context,
probably in relation to I/P, or at some other personal level.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Rohn, if you hear such allegations, it would be respectful
of you to confirm them with the accused instead of simply believing
them and having them "confirmed" by repetition in the local progressive
feedback loop. Or you might at least take them with a grain of salt. In
very few cases is the disruption what it appears to be on the surface,
no matter how personally some people might take things.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>By the way, I busted my ass for about 2 or 3 years to take
minutes at meetings and work the Farmers market from all angles, from
ordering supplies to setting up to taking down; not to mention a
teach-in I helped to organize in 2002, writing up fliers, etc. I have a
feeling that most the gossip-mongers you refer to probably did much
less, not that I cared at the time.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>I'm more inclined to believe that Obama's election and a
reluctance to criticize him is at the root of this particular antiwar
organization's conflicts, as it was with so many others around the
country. </span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Regarding Yaaqov, I think his tone and tactics have a long
if little noted sordid history in what is called the progressive
community in CU. He's like a walking stereotype of an Israeli
"progressive." He's just bad news, he's a racist, he's an absolute
clown at an intellectual level, and you might like to direct some of
your scurrilous allegations his way.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>David</span></div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br>
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<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Friday, December 27,
2013 8:43 PM, Rohn Koester <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rohnkoester@gmail.com"><rohnkoester@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
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<div class="y_msg_container">Karen, I have to admit that I wasn't
sure to whom you were referring<br clear="none">
when you wrote this. I suppose it was meant to be Ya'aqov? Just as a<br
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matter of fact, I've talked with probably two dozen people in the<br
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community who used to be members of AWARE but say they were driven<br
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away by rude, disruptive, calculated behavior on the part of Carl,<br
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Wayne, and/or David. These are unsolicited accounts, usually told to<br
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me when I've mentioned AWARE, and the general attitude of the accounts<br
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has been corroborated by several people who are still active members<br
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of AWARE. Much of this has reminded me of the sort of<br clear="none">
avoidance/compensation behavior that families of alcoholics engage in.<br
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<br clear="none">
I don't think anyone would claim the peace-discuss listserv really has<br
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many discussions at this point, not because there aren't differences<br
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of opinion but because the likelihood of these differences being given<br
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any sort of respectful treatment seems pretty low. I wonder if someone<br
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could describe the peace-discuss listserv's standards of conduct and<br
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how they're enforced. For instance, Wayne's message about Ya'aqov from<br
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a few hours ago made no attempt to address the political subject under<br
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discussion, and it seemed quite abusive in tone. Should this sort of<br
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comment be given the same access to the listserv as comments with<br
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substance?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I'm glad to have this conversation in person if it's better for<br
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everyone -- which bar do you all plan to be meeting at this Sunday?<br
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<br clear="none">
Thanks,<br clear="none">
Rohn<br clear="none">
<div class="yqt7190845520" id="yqtfd67860"><br clear="none">
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Karen Aram <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
> At one time they followed the below, today they simply criticize,
agitate,<br clear="none">
> disrupt, and/or slander in an effort to discredit those who are
involved in<br clear="none">
> attempting to change the system. Somehow insisting they can do or
think<br clear="none">
> better. When given the opportunity to do, they don't. It then
becomes<br clear="none">
> obvious who and what they are, time and time again they will go
after<br clear="none">
> individuals and groups and its always the same, instead of working
to change<br clear="none">
> whats wrong they go after those that are, by wearing them down or
just<br clear="none">
> boring them to death. It's one of those things you can't really
discribe,<br clear="none">
> but you know it when you see or hear it.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> The technical term:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> An agent provocateur (French for "inciting agent") is an
undercover agent<br clear="none">
> who acts to entice another person to commit an illegal or rash act
or<br clear="none">
> falsely implicate them in partaking in an illegal act. An agent
provocateur<br clear="none">
> may be employed by the police or other entity to discredit or harm
another<br clear="none">
> group (e.g., peaceful protest or demonstration) by provoking them
to commit<br clear="none">
> an act - thus, undermining the protest or demonstration as whole.<br
clear="none">
> To prevent infiltration by agents provocateurs,[1] the organizers
of large<br clear="none">
> or controversial assemblies may deploy and coordinate demonstration<br
clear="none">
> marshals, also called stewards.[2][3]<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
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><br clear="none">
> ________________________________<br clear="none">
> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 15:31:38 -0600<br clear="none">
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yaaqovz@gmail.com"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:yaaqovz@gmail.com">yaaqovz@gmail.com</a><br
clear="none">
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br
clear="none">
> CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>;<br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net">peace@lists.chambana.net</a><br
clear="none">
> Subject: Re: [Peace] Press release<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> David Green,<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Indeed, the meeting I referred to was at CPL a panel you were on.
My<br clear="none">
> specific question to Dr Abu Al-Aish at UFL, was about Vittorio
Arrigoni and<br clear="none">
> his assassination by Hamas. The level of your purposeful
misquoting my<br clear="none">
> statements at that and other meetings critically disappoints me.
If this is<br clear="none">
> what an academic does when getting into politics, don't we have
such<br clear="none">
> politicians already<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Your ethnic profiling of me is indicative of the depth you would
apply to<br clear="none">
> someone challenging your standpoint. You would think, it's your
campaign<br clear="none">
> related need to tarnish one's image and trivialize her/his
comments. After<br clear="none">
> all, you are trying so hard to show you are concerned and involved
with your<br clear="none">
> potential voters (yet in the face of disagreements, you do
whatever it takes<br clear="none">
> to defend your ticket, it's a mere technicality to pass over a
hurdle).<br clear="none">
> Did you really need to embed your reply with offensive remarks,
character<br clear="none">
> assassination attempts? isn’t Rush Limbaugh an excellent
spokesperson for<br clear="none">
> doing that already?<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> And you haven’t answered yet my question: what you considered
Palestinians<br clear="none">
> (?) other than by implying they are those people that Israelis
have been<br clear="none">
> been horrible with. Mind you, you propose no change about that,<br
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><br clear="none">
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> Ya'aqov<br clear="none">
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> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list<br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace"
target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace</a></div>
<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">
> Peace-discuss mailing list<br clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"
target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
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_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Peace-discuss mailing list<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br
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href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"
target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
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Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
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