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Knowledge is power. (Frank Bacon)<br>
<br>
Information might be empowering if knowledge is derived from quality
information.<br>
<br>
Misinfo is also empowering (relatively so) to those pushing it.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/27/2014 12:07 PM, Lynn Stuckey wrote:
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<div><b>Sure, there should be minimal standards in the public
education of children (At what level do we expect them, at the end of
their days, to read, to write, to calculate, to reason, to know the
nature of nature, etc.!.… ) just as there should be standards for
government actions, institutions, etc. </b>Agreed<br>
</div>
<div><b>Just how to meet those standards can be flexible. </b> Be
very cautious--some are only too happy to exploit flexibility to serve
their own purposes, and not students, families, or taxpayers...<br>
</div>
<div><b>How about standards for teachers, and for their remuneration
and their education? </b>A whole 'nother can of worms...standards
for renumeration are different in Chicago than they are in Cairo, but
the cost of living in Cairo is much less.<br>
</div>
<div><b>How standards are set will be contentious, but ought to
reasonably blend democratic procedures and, yes, that horrible thing
called knowledge. </b>Agreed<br>
</div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<b></b>
<div><b>This all bears on the the large question of an informed
citizenry/society—does anyone want it? </b>Somedays I suspect this is
the sort of goal that many are willing to pay lip service to, but only
too happy to work behind the scenes subverting. After all, information
is power.<br>
<br>
Lynn<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">brussel@illinois.edu</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com">lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Common Core<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 03:57:05 +0000<br>
<br>
My two £:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sure, there should be minimal standards in the public education
of children (At what level do we expect them, at the end of their days,
to read, to write, to calculate, to reason, to know the nature of
nature, etc.!.… ) just as there should be standards for government
actions, institutions, etc. </div>
<div>Just how to meet those standards can be flexible. </div>
<div>How about standards for teachers, and for their remuneration and
their education? </div>
<div>How standards are set will be contentious, but ought to
reasonably blend democratic procedures and, yes, that horrible thing
called knowledge. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This all bears on the the large question of an informed
citizenry/society—does anyone want it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--mkb</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 26, 2014, at 7:37 PM, David Green wrote:</div>
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<div><span>Phony liberal-conservative debate about the common core
distracts us from both economic issues and legitimate educational
issues, just as Bill Gates wants us to be.</span></div>
<div class="ecxyahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">On Sunday, January 26,
2014 7:30 PM, David Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font></div>
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<div><b><font face="Arial">Interesting discussion on " Common
Core " and educational policy.</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">I did some research about " Common
Core " and it appears that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation are
big promoters of Common
</font></b></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">Core, including a $ 160 Million dollar
donation.</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">That alone makes me suspicious of
Common Core, since Bill Gates is a big promoter of privatized corporate
charter schools.</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="Arial">David Johnson</font></b></div>
<div> </div>
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Original Message ----- </div>
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<b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com" href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">
Lynn Stuckey</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; -x-system-font: none; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="davegreen84@yahoo.com" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">
David Green</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="peace-discuss@anti-war.net"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect">
Peace Discuss</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net"
href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">
discuss list</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; -x-system-font: none; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:02 PM</div>
<div
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<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Discuss] Common Core</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><b><span><font
face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">On a genuinely
democratic basis, without pressure and harassment, parents, teachers,
administrators, citizens, and developing children can make sound
decisions in accordance with their local proclivities and genuine
concern about their children's futures. On the basis of consensual
school/community standards in various disciplines, teachers, parents,
and children can make choices that consider the gifts and talents of
each child, as well as the labor market. These gifts and talents may
have vocational possibilities or otherwise, but it will be up to
children, in consultation with their parents and teachers, to make
choices with various implications for their development and their
future.</font></span></b><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sorry, David, but you've just made it clear that you've always lived in
places where adults regard it as their responsibility to educate
children. I must unfortunately inform you that not every community
thinks that way (many rural communities are good places of the thinking
that drives their underinvestment in education), and your proposed
solution will leave these children undereducated and consigned to lower
earnings and achievement throughout their life. While it may make the
adults feel good, how does it help the children develop into productive
adults? How does this further your goal of a progressive, more just
society?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
As a person who grew up in one of those communities that takes pride in
undereducating their children, it is not a pleasant place to be in, and
there is a reason I refused to subject my own child to that type of
education. I do not appreciate your willingness to throw so many
children away. Not every child gets the chance to grow up in a
community like Champaign-Urbana.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Lynn<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div class="hr"
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Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 15:30:10 -0800<br clear="none">
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Discuss] Common Core<br clear="none">
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com">lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">Hi
Lynn,</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br
clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><span><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif"
size="4">So long as schools are accorded the role of sorting out
students for their assigned places in brutal capitalism with its
radical inequality, then there is not much the schools can do one way
or the other. Once we've addressed economic issues as economic issues,
then we can address educational issues as educational issues, and let
the chips fall where they may. We can have national or state standards,
but these should not be mandatory. On a genuinely democratic basis,
without pressure and harassment, parents, teachers, administrators,
citizens, and developing children can make sound decisions in
accordance with their local proclivities and genuine concern about
their children's futures. On the basis of consensual school/community
standards in various disciplines, teachers, parents, and children can
make choices that consider the gifts and talents of each child, as well
as the labor market. These gifts and talents may have vocational
possibilities or otherwise, but it will be up to children, in
consultation with their parents and teachers, to make choices with
various implications for their development and their future. On this
basis schools can come to address the needs of the individual in the
community, rather than groups whose interests, while worthy of
consideration, should have no bearing on the development and choices of
the child/adolescent/young adult.</font></span></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br
clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">Best,</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br
clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">David</font></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">On Sunday, January 26, 2014
12:53 PM, Lynn Stuckey <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com">lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</font></div>
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<div dir="ltr"> <b>School districts (parents, teachers,
students, citizens) need to develop their own standards.</b>
"Developing their own standards" is what gives us one set of textbooks
for Texas and another for the rest of the country. Is this a path you
would like to continue on? Do you really think the science books that
teach about creationism are doing those children any favors?<br
clear="none">
<b> Standards don't have to be uniform, even among schools or
classrooms. </b>And if the standards are not uniform, how can we be
certain that all children in a particular grade level are able to read,
write, or do arithmetic at a particular level? A high school diploma
is no longer a guarantee that you can read or write; it has devolved
into a marker that you can show up for enough classes and stay out of
enough trouble to make it through. Hence "credential inflation", best
symbolized by the drapery company in town that expects its receptionist
to possess a four-year degree, yet will only pay her minimum wage. Any
questions as to why this job is constantly in the want ads?<br
clear="none">
<b>They should result from communities developing an
educational identity.</b> I can't remember where you're from, David,
but I know you've lived in C-U for almost as long as I have. I grew up
on a farm almost 70 miles south of here, in a county of 14,000
residents (2010 census: 11,400; about 98% white) that is economically
depressed and in (proud) possession of bad schools. You need to
understand that many small and rural school districts don't place a
high premium on educational achievement, but the Republican-dominated
school boards expect and agitate for state payments. Do you realize
how many school districts in Illinois don't have Advanced Placement or
Honors classes? Do you realize how many of the voting citizens of
those counties are more concerned about how their high school football
or basketball team is doing, but don't care about the kids who are
below average on reading or math tests? Then they wonder why they
can't attract economic development, and why their population keeps
declining and getting poorer.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
"Developing an educational identity" sounds great on paper and may work
well in a university town, where folks recognize the need for all
children to be achieving to the best of their abilities. But it is a
<u><b>disaster</b></u> for children from areas like the one I
grew up in, where the interest is not on educating children, but rather
on making sure they show up so the district can collect the maximum
payment from the State.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
And I'm not a huge fan of Common Core--while the initial idea was good,
the back-mapping of what children need to learn, when they need to
learn it (often not based on when their developing brains are ready to
do it), and the execution of its rollout are horrible, and it's going
to fail as badly as pretty much any other education "reform" propogated
in American schools since the early 1900's.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
What's the answer, you ask? Well, I'm a fan of the money following the
child. I would abolish attendance boundaries and allow parents and
children to flee the schools that are failing children. And yes, some
schools will close, but why shouldn't you be out of business when you
won't even bother to make the effort to ensure all children are
achieving to the best of their abilities? Why should a family held be
captive to the board's disinterest in and unwillingness to educate
children to necessary levels, simply because of their address? Mine
was, and let me tell you, it was not a pleasant experience to be told
that my school would not be willing to pay for independent studies in
Chemistry II and Physics II my senior year of high school, and that I
must round up 12 children to take Calculus (the 9 I had found were
considered to be an "insufficient number", out of a class of 78
seniors). But I was welcome to take P.E. for an additional period, and
had I considered Woodworking or Automotive class? Really? This is
what you want to continue paying for? Do you have any reason to wonder
why the four siblings who got a chance to go to the Illinois Math and
Science Academy fled there instead?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
"Money following the child" is the model we use for college in the
U.S. I don't buy the argument that parents are incapable of making
decisions for the best education for their child from ages 5-17, but
once that child hits 18, s/he can make a good decision about what
college and career path they are best suited for. Just check out the
statistics on how many people complete college in six years or less, or
the rates of degree attainment in community colleges. Just because
some parents make educational decisions you might not agree with does
not make them wrong.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Lynn Stuckey<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>
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Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 07:24:56 -0800<br clear="none">
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br
clear="none">
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a><br
clear="none">
Subject: [Discuss] Common Core<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Indispensable for an understanding how corrupted the
"liberal vs. conservative" debate is regarding school "reform". School
districts (parents, teachers, students, citizens) need to develop their
own standards. Standards don't have to be uniform, even among schools
or classrooms. They should result from communities developing an
educational identity.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>DG</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
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