<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<blockquote type="cite"> Not every child gets the chance to grow up in
a community like Champaign-Urbana.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
This is indisputably true, since there are several million children in
the world,<br>
and for most of them it is too far to walk to C-U to attend school even
if they<br>
arise early each day, and there are few boarding schools in C-U. <br>
<br>
Democracy, genuine or American, does not necessary imply that there is
a consensus in<br>
the community. People consent to things that they do not agree with as
they see no way out<br>
or no way period.<br>
<br>
I would suppose that in every place there are those who think that
adults should get involved <br>
with the education of their children even if they are opposed to
taxation and waste and those<br>
who think that the problem with education in America is that they still
dont spend enough.<br>
<br>
I do think that it is a great idea for every community and area to try
to find its own way<br>
and develop according to its own ideas, right, wrong, or indifferent.
If you find<br>
that the prevalent memes of some place don't suit you, you can move
away to <br>
find a more suitable spot.<br>
<br>
Mandates of various kinds sent to communities are certainly
anti-democratic.<br>
<br>
If the people of Podunk, IL want to teach their children that the earth
is flat<br>
and the moon is made of Green cheese or sticky pecans and nougat, what
should one do?<br>
<br>
The Mennonites and many other groups want to teach a certain way of
thinking<br>
in their rural areas. Why should those be compelled to follow they
ways of a <br>
majority? Democracy seems oppressive and tyrannical to them,<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/27/2014 8:02 AM, Lynn Stuckey wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:COL129-W10014B4867ECEF3131405B92A20@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style>
<div dir="ltr"><b><span><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif"
size="4">On a genuinely democratic basis, without pressure and
harassment, parents, teachers, administrators, citizens, and developing
children can make sound decisions in accordance with their local
proclivities and genuine concern about their children's futures. On the
basis of consensual school/community standards in various disciplines,
teachers, parents, and children can make choices that consider the
gifts and talents of each child, as well as the labor market. These
gifts and talents may have vocational possibilities or otherwise, but
it will be up to children, in consultation with their parents and
teachers, to make choices with various implications for their
development and their future.</font></span></b><br>
<br>
Sorry, David, but you've just made it clear that you've always lived in
places where adults regard it as their responsibility to educate
children. I must unfortunately inform you that not every community
thinks that way (many rural communities are good places of the thinking
that drives their underinvestment in education), and your proposed
solution will leave these children undereducated and consigned to lower
earnings and achievement throughout their life. While it may make the
adults feel good, how does it help the children develop into productive
adults? How does this further your goal of a progressive, more just
society?<br>
<br>
As a person who grew up in one of those communities that takes pride in
undereducating their children, it is not a pleasant place to be in, and
there is a reason I refused to subject my own child to that type of
education. I do not appreciate your willingness to throw so many
children away. Not every child gets the chance to grow up in a
community like Champaign-Urbana.<br>
<br>
Lynn<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 15:30:10 -0800<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Discuss] Common Core<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com">lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
<br>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">Hi Lynn,</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><span><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">So
long as schools are accorded the role of sorting out students for their
assigned places in brutal capitalism with its radical inequality, then
there is not much the schools can do one way or the other. Once we've
addressed economic issues as economic issues, then we can address
educational issues as educational issues, and let the chips fall where
they may. We can have national or state standards, but these should not
be mandatory. On a genuinely democratic basis, without pressure and
harassment, parents, teachers, administrators, citizens, and developing
children can make sound decisions in accordance with their local
proclivities and genuine concern about their children's futures. On the
basis of consensual school/community standards in various disciplines,
teachers, parents, and children can make choices that consider the
gifts and talents of each child, as well as the labor market. These
gifts and talents may have vocational possibilities or otherwise, but
it will be up to children, in consultation with their parents and
teachers, to make choices with various implications for their
development and their future. On this basis schools can come to address
the needs of the individual in the community, rather than groups whose
interests, while worthy of consideration, should have no bearing on the
development and choices of the child/adolescent/young adult.</font></span></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">Best,</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif" size="4">David</font></div>
<div class="ecxyahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br>
<br>
<div
style="font-family: Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif;">
<div
style="font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Sunday, January 26, 2014
12:53 PM, Lynn Stuckey <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com"><lynn.stuckey@hotmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
</font> </div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px;">
<div class="ecxy_msg_container">
<div id="ecxyiv0366918088">
<style><!--
.ExternalClass #ecxyiv0366918088 body.ecxyiv0366918088hmmessage {
font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri;
}
--></style>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"> <b>School districts (parents, teachers, students,
citizens) need to develop their own standards.</b> "Developing their
own standards" is what gives us one set of textbooks for Texas and
another for the rest of the country. Is this a path you would like to
continue on? Do you really think the science books that teach about
creationism are doing those children any favors?<br clear="none">
<b> Standards don't have to be uniform, even among schools or
classrooms. </b>And if the standards are not uniform, how can we be
certain that all children in a particular grade level are able to read,
write, or do arithmetic at a particular level? A high school diploma
is no longer a guarantee that you can read or write; it has devolved
into a marker that you can show up for enough classes and stay out of
enough trouble to make it through. Hence "credential inflation", best
symbolized by the drapery company in town that expects its receptionist
to possess a four-year degree, yet will only pay her minimum wage. Any
questions as to why this job is constantly in the want ads?<br
clear="none">
<b>They should result from communities developing an educational
identity.</b> I can't remember where you're from, David, but I know
you've lived in C-U for almost as long as I have. I grew up on a farm
almost 70 miles south of here, in a county of 14,000 residents (2010
census: 11,400; about 98% white) that is economically depressed and in
(proud) possession of bad schools. You need to understand that many
small and rural school districts don't place a high premium on
educational achievement, but the Republican-dominated school boards
expect and agitate for state payments. Do you realize how many school
districts in Illinois don't have Advanced Placement or Honors classes?
Do you realize how many of the voting citizens of those counties are
more concerned about how their high school football or basketball team
is doing, but don't care about the kids who are below average on
reading or math tests? Then they wonder why they can't attract
economic development, and why their population keeps declining and
getting poorer. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
"Developing an educational identity" sounds great on paper and may work
well in a university town, where folks recognize the need for all
children to be achieving to the best of their abilities. But it is a <u><b>disaster</b></u>
for children from areas like the one I grew up in, where the interest
is not on educating children, but rather on making sure they show up so
the district can collect the maximum payment from the State.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
And I'm not a huge fan of Common Core--while the initial idea was good,
the back-mapping of what children need to learn, when they need to
learn it (often not based on when their developing brains are ready to
do it), and the execution of its rollout are horrible, and it's going
to fail as badly as pretty much any other education "reform" propogated
in American schools since the early 1900's.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
What's the answer, you ask? Well, I'm a fan of the money following the
child. I would abolish attendance boundaries and allow parents and
children to flee the schools that are failing children. And yes, some
schools will close, but why shouldn't you be out of business when you
won't even bother to make the effort to ensure all children are
achieving to the best of their abilities? Why should a family held be
captive to the board's disinterest in and unwillingness to educate
children to necessary levels, simply because of their address? Mine
was, and let me tell you, it was not a pleasant experience to be told
that my school would not be willing to pay for independent studies in
Chemistry II and Physics II my senior year of high school, and that I
must round up 12 children to take Calculus (the 9 I had found were
considered to be an "insufficient number", out of a class of 78
seniors). But I was welcome to take P.E. for an additional period, and
had I considered Woodworking or Automotive class? Really? This is
what you want to continue paying for? Do you have any reason to wonder
why the four siblings who got a chance to go to the Illinois Math and
Science Academy fled there instead?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
"Money following the child" is the model we use for college in the
U.S. I don't buy the argument that parents are incapable of making
decisions for the best education for their child from ages 5-17, but
once that child hits 18, s/he can make a good decision about what
college and career path they are best suited for. Just check out the
statistics on how many people complete college in six years or less, or
the rates of degree attainment in community colleges. Just because
some parents make educational decisions you might not agree with does
not make them wrong.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Lynn Stuckey<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 07:24:56 -0800<br clear="none">
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none">
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a><br clear="none">
Subject: [Discuss] Common Core<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="ecxyiv0366918088yqt0097528602"
id="ecxyiv0366918088yqt16085">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Indispensable for an understanding how corrupted the "liberal
vs. conservative" debate is regarding school "reform". School districts
(parents, teachers, students, citizens) need to develop their own
standards. Standards don't have to be uniform, even among schools or
classrooms. They should result from communities developing an
educational identity.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>DG</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.chambana.net">Discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss-communitycourtwatch">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss-communitycourtwatch</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>