<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">From Bertolt Brecht (1898-1956), about the 1953 uprising in East Germany:<div><br></div><div>"Some party hack decreed that the people<br>had lost the government's confidence<br>and could only regain it with redoubled effort.<br>If that is the case, would it not be be simpler,<br>If the government simply dissolved the people<br>And elected another?"<br><div>--"The Solution" ["Die Lösung"] as translated in "Brecht on Brecht : An Improvisation" (1967) by George Tabori</div><div><br></div><div>Variant translation:<br></div><div>"The Secretary of the Writers Union<br>Had flyers distributed in Stalin Way that said<br>That the People had frivolously<br>Thrown away the Government's Confidence<br>And that they could only regain it<br>Through Redoubled Work. But wouldn't it be<br>Simpler if the Government<br>Simply dissolved the People<br>And elected another?"</div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 11, 2014, at 10:23 AM, E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森 <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org">ewj@pigsqq.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">With the demize of Windows as a reasonable option for new computer hardware,<br>we have been looking at Slackware GNU/Linux as a possible alternative. I bring it up in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>command line mode rather that as a gui, and it greets one with random pithy quotes-<br><br>Got this one a couple of days ago:<br><br>"If the Government doesn't like the People,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>it should get rid of all of them,<br>and elect new people."<br><br><br><br><br>On 2/11/2014 11:58 PM, Karen Aram wrote:<blockquote cite="mid:BAY177-W9DD0963DD47975CED6AB1A3930@phx.gbl" type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Excuse my ignorance of local affairs please, but as someone who supports Carol Ammons, given her pro-labor, pro-choice, etc. platform, I am a bit perplexed at the personal attacks on Carl for asking a question related to "enterprise and/or technology zones". I am attempting to understand this issue and how it relates to taxation and use of public funds in support of corporations. However, its difficult given the accusations of racism, etc., for simply asking the question and pointing out that some of us believed in our current President because he supported anti-war, and appeared to support the poor etc. Carls point should be taken as a lesson, in that perhaps we were blinded by Obama being the first African American to have a chance at holding such a powerful position, assuming he would be as we imagined, only to be sadly disappointed that he is not MLK. Perhaps if we had looked closer at his policies related to issues and not been dazzled by his charm and charisma we might have supported someone who better represented our views, if the Party were to allow it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Public figures policy stands need to be examined thoroughly.<br> <br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:22:27 -0800<br>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a><br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a><br>CC:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu">jrbarret@uiuc.edu</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<br><br><div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The principal objector's thinking about women's issues is well known, so regardless of the excuses he's come up with, I'm guessing the real reason is that Carol Ammons supports Planned Parenthood.<div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div dir="ltr"><hr size="1"><font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Brussel Morton K.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net"><mkbrussel@comcast.net></a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>C. G. Estabrook<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com"><carl@newsfromneptune.com></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"Barrett, James R"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu"><jrbarret@uiuc.edu></a>; Peace-discuss<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a>; sf-core<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com"><sf-core@yahoogroups.com></a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">"occupycu@lists.chambana.net"</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net"><occupycu@lists.chambana.net></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:01 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<br></font></div><div class="ecxy_msg_container"><br>I find it curious that you appear to be putting all " progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate(s)" into the same bag (as M. Obama). What do you have against Carol Ammons (as against her opponents) aside from the fact that she has the same color as Obama (which could mislead us in our choice). <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>--mkb<br><br>On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:33 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br><br>> The national Democrats offered "a progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in Terms of class inequality" for president, and his mendacity got us an administration of assassination and austerity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Doesn't that suggest that we should ask what "progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate[s]" on the local level actually propose, rather than voting for them out of debased identity politics?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> --CGE<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Barrett, James R <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu">jrbarret@uiuc.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Very discouraging. I doubt anyone agrees with all of her<br>>> views, but we have a progressive, ostentatiously<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Terms of class inequality and we're supposed<br>>> to invest our limited time into attacking her? That's sick.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Jim Barrett<br>>> ________________________________________<br>>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>] on behalf of C. G. Estabrook [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>]<br>>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:39 AM<br>>> To: David Johnson<br>>> Cc: sf-core; Peace-discuss;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results [1 Attachment]<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> [Attachment(s) from C. G. Estabrook included below]<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> David--<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> As you know, "enterprise zones" are a neoliberal technique, originally proposed by 'supply-side' economists. Their current proponents acknowledge successful criticism by looking for newer, more marketable names - e.g., "technology zones."<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> It's not clear that states and municipalities should be competing to give breaks to corporate entities on the threat that they might move away and take jobs - or on the promise to bring them. See e.g., Durl Kruse' letter (attached) regarding the Champaign City Council's "Tax Increment Financing District" that will give Kraft "a $3.6 million tax subsidy to build a new warehouse."<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Durl writes, "One must wonder if this TIF project represents the flexing of corporate muscle by threatening the community 'not to build if not approved,' and when given the opportunity, to directly manipulate TIF laws for corporate gain at taxpayers' expense."<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Clearly, the supposed benefits of such a program should generalize. You can make an argument for "an across the board corporate tax cut" to promote trade and employment. Such business taxes should be replaced with taxes on concentrated wealth and speculation - i.e., taxes on investable assets, and Tobin taxes.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Given the entrenched (non-democratic) political power of capital, wealth taxes and Tobin taxes are not on the horizon in Illinois, unfortunately. (The Democrats should of course be opposed on this point.) The best we can do in the near future seems to be a progressive income tax and social subsidies, including perhaps the state single-payer system that you've been working for.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Regards, CGE<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:21 PM, David Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> The differnce is that Rosenberg supports an across the board corporate tax cut with no conditions.<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Carol Ammons " Technology Zone Program " gives a tax break to a company ONLY if a company ;<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> 1) increases employment by the greater of 10 % of its current workforce or a minimum of 3 new full-time employees<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> 2) Pays wages of 20 % or more above the median income of Champaign County<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> 3) Employ a minimum of 5 full-time employees<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Not to mention that Rosenberg is an attorney who works for Carle Clinic and takes poor and elderly people to court for not paying hospital bills.<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Carol has been a community activist for over a decade, opposing the : Police, States Attorney and other local officials / vested interests at times when necessary in the pursuit of social justice.<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Again, the choice is clear to me who would be the better advocate for Working people in the 103rd District<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> David Johnson<br>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>>>> From: C. G. Estabrook<br>>>> To: David Johnson<br>>>> Cc: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@<a href="http://mail0.frost.chambana.net/">mail0.frost.chambana.net</a>><br>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:29 PM<br>>>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Didn't Carol support 'enterprise zones' (under another name), which are even more substantial corporate tax cats - for favored corporations?<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:24 PM, David Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net">davidjohnson1451@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> I just returned from the Ammons vs. Rosenberg debate, for the Illinois 103rd State Rep Democratic Primary race.<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> The major differences between the two candidates were ;<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Rosenberg SUPPORTS cutting corporate taxes and OPPOSES the $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Carol Ammons in contrast OPPOSES cutting corporate taxes and SUPPORTS the $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Rosenberg also stated that Carol Ammons experience in local government on the County Board and the Urbana City Council does NOT make her more qualified than him in terms of experience.<br>>>>> He stated that ;<br>>>>> " Springfield is a different BEAST than local government and I am more qualified to deal with that."<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> The difference could not be any clearer to me.<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> What was also interesting was that I submitted TWO questions for the candidates, first via e-mail several days before the debate and early on at the debate.<br>>>>> Neither question was asked !<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> The questions were ;<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> 1) Would you be willing to co-sponsor the current House Bill to enact a universal health care system in Illinois ( H.B. 942 ).<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> and<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> 2) Would you co-sponsor House Bill H.B. 3754 that would dissolve the Illinois Charter School Commision<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> I wonder why the Moderators avoided asking these questions ?<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> David Johnson<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ------------------------------------<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Yahoo Groups Links<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> <*> Your email settings:<br>> Individual Email | Traditional<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> <*> To change settings online go to:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join</a><br>> (Yahoo! 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