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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Karen and Ricky,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>You both make excellent points and arguements that
I agree with.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Ricky your concise analysis of the dynamics of this
103rd Illinois State Rep race was " spot on ".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Even if I didn't know Carol and what she has done
over the last 10-years in C-U, I would vote for her, if for no other reason,
because of the tremendous effort being made by the Madigan controlled State
Democratic party and other corporate special interests to prevent Carol from
being elected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>At the same time, I agree with Karen that we
shouldn't attack Carl for raising the questions he has. After all, its not like
we haven't been betrayed time and time again by the neo-liberal corporate
controlled democratic party.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Just my 2-cents worth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>David Johnson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=karenaram@hotmail.com href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com">Karen
Aram</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=rbaldwin@seiu73.org
href="mailto:rbaldwin@seiu73.org">Ricky Baldwin</A> ; <A
title=jencart13@yahoo.com href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">Jenifer
Cartwright</A> ; <A title=mkbrussel@comcast.net
href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">Brussel Morton K.</A> ; <A
title=carl@newsfromneptune.com href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">C. G.
Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=jrbarret@uiuc.edu
href="mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu">Barrett, James R</A> ; <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> ; <A
title=sf-core@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core</A> ; <A
title=occupycu@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU]
[sf-core] Re: AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Ricky<BR> <BR>Good, you have pointed out the
many reasons why I support her. I just don't understand why people were
so critical of Carl, assuming he was criticizing her, even to the point of
attacking him personally, simply because he was asking a question related to
her policy on corporate tax zones.<BR>I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my email, I
was referring to Obama's <STRONG>charisma</STRONG>. My response was
constructed and sent before seeing Carl's more recent comments related to the
issue, making his concerns and intentions clear. Thus its now a moot
point. <BR> <BR> <BR>
<DIV>> From: <A
href="mailto:rbaldwin@seiu73.org">rbaldwin@seiu73.org</A><BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com">karenaram@hotmail.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>; <A
href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</A><BR>>
CC: <A href="mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu">jrbarret@uiuc.edu</A>; <A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>;
<A href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net">occupycu@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>
Subject: RE: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG
Debate Results<BR>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 22:11:22 +0000<BR>> <BR>>
This is interesting. In fact, no one at all is saying that Carol Ammons should
be supported because of her charisma. She has been very active locally for
years on issues that we care about -- the environment (e.g. Fifth & Hill
neighborhood toxic dump), criminal justice (supported civilian police review
boards, opposed police getting Tasers, opposed new jail construction,
supported a study on racial profiling in Urbana - which apparently turned the
Mayor against her), labor (supported and picketed with GEO and SEIU during
both strikes), and so on.<BR>> <BR>> She is running against a corporate
Democrat who supports a cut in corporate taxes and is supported by House
Speaker Madigan, widely viewed as having controlled Naomi Jakobsson for her
tenure in office, and who has never supported local labor struggles openly
until now and has done nothing locally in any environmental
controversy.<BR>> <BR>> Their Republican opponent seems like a nice
person but raises zero ideas and runs a fluff campaign.<BR>> <BR>> The
choice is actually pretty stark.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ricky<BR>> (also
low charisma)<BR>> <BR>> ________________________________<BR>> From:
OccupyCU [occupycu-bounces@lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram
[karenaram@hotmail.com]<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:58
AM<BR>> To: Jenifer Cartwright; Brussel Morton K.; C. G. Estabrook<BR>>
Cc: Barrett, James R; Peace-discuss; sf-core;
occupycu@lists.chambana.net<BR>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss]
[sf-core] Re: AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<BR>> <BR>> Excuse my
ignorance of local affairs please, but as someone who supports Carol Ammons,
given her pro-labor, pro-choice, etc. platform, I am a bit perplexed at the
personal attacks on Carl for asking a question related to "enterprise and/or
technology zones". I am attempting to understand this issue and how it relates
to taxation and use of public funds in support of corporations. However, its
difficult given the accusations of racism, etc., for simply asking the
question and pointing out that some of us believed in our current President
because he supported anti-war, and appeared to support the poor etc. Carls
point should be taken as a lesson, in that perhaps we were blinded by Obama
being the first African American to have a chance at holding such a powerful
position, assuming he would be as we imagined, only to be sadly disappointed
that he is not MLK. Perhaps if we had looked closer at his policies related to
issues and not been dazzled by his charm and charisma we might have supported
someone who better represented our views, if the Party were to allow
it.<BR>> Public figures policy stands need to be examined
thoroughly.<BR>> <BR>> ________________________________<BR>> Date:
Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:22:27 -0800<BR>> From: jencart13@yahoo.com<BR>> To:
mkbrussel@comcast.net; carl@newsfromneptune.com<BR>> CC: jrbarret@uiuc.edu;
peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net; sf-core@yahoogroups.com;
occupycu@lists.chambana.net<BR>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re:
[OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<BR>> <BR>> The principal
objector's thinking about women's issues is well known, so regardless of the
excuses he's come up with, I'm guessing the real reason is that Carol Ammons
supports Planned Parenthood.<BR>> ________________________________<BR>>
From: Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel@comcast.net><BR>> To: C. G.
Estabrook <carl@newsfromneptune.com><BR>> Cc: "Barrett, James R"
<jrbarret@uiuc.edu>; Peace-discuss
<peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net>; sf-core
<sf-core@yahoogroups.com>; "occupycu@lists.chambana.net"
<occupycu@lists.chambana.net><BR>> Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014
3:01 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS
vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<BR>> <BR>> I find it curious that you
appear to be putting all " progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black
candidate(s)" into the same bag (as M. Obama). What do you have against Carol
Ammons (as against her opponents) aside from the fact that she has the same
color as Obama (which could mislead us in our choice).<BR>> <BR>>
--mkb<BR>> <BR>> On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:33 PM, C. G. Estabrook
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > The national Democrats offered "a progressive,
ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in
Terms of class inequality" for president, and his mendacity got us an
administration of assassination and austerity.<BR>> ><BR>> >
Doesn't that suggest that we should ask what "progressive, ostentatiously
pro-labor viable Black candidate[s]" on the local level actually propose,
rather than voting for them out of debased identity politics?<BR>>
><BR>> > --CGE<BR>> ><BR>> > On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:22 PM,
Barrett, James R <jrbarret@uiuc.edu<mailto:jrbarret@uiuc.edu>>
wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >> Very discouraging. I doubt anyone agrees
with all of her<BR>> >> views, but we have a progressive,
ostentatiously<BR>> >> pro-labor viable Black candidate who is
willing to speak in<BR>> >> Terms of class inequality and we're
supposed<BR>> >> to invest our limited time into attacking her?
That's sick.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Jim Barrett<BR>> >>
________________________________________<BR>> >> From:
sf-core@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com>
[sf-core@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of
C. G. Estabrook
[carl@newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com>]<BR>>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:39 AM<BR>> >> To: David
Johnson<BR>> >> Cc: sf-core; Peace-discuss;
occupycu@lists.chambana.net<mailto:occupycu@lists.chambana.net><BR>>
>> Subject: Re: [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate
Results [1 Attachment]<BR>> >><BR>> >> [Attachment(s) from
C. G. Estabrook included below]<BR>> >><BR>> >>
David--<BR>> >><BR>> >> As you know, "enterprise zones" are
a neoliberal technique, originally proposed by 'supply-side' economists. Their
current proponents acknowledge successful criticism by looking for newer, more
marketable names - e.g., "technology zones."<BR>> >><BR>> >>
It's not clear that states and municipalities should be competing to give
breaks to corporate entities on the threat that they might move away and take
jobs - or on the promise to bring them. See e.g., Durl Kruse' letter
(attached) regarding the Champaign City Council's "Tax Increment Financing
District" that will give Kraft "a $3.6 million tax subsidy to build a new
warehouse."<BR>> >><BR>> >> Durl writes, "One must wonder if
this TIF project represents the flexing of corporate muscle by threatening the
community 'not to build if not approved,' and when given the opportunity, to
directly manipulate TIF laws for corporate gain at taxpayers'
expense."<BR>> >><BR>> >> Clearly, the supposed benefits of
such a program should generalize. You can make an argument for "an across the
board corporate tax cut" to promote trade and employment. Such business taxes
should be replaced with taxes on concentrated wealth and speculation - i.e.,
taxes on investable assets, and Tobin taxes.<BR>> >><BR>> >>
Given the entrenched (non-democratic) political power of capital, wealth taxes
and Tobin taxes are not on the horizon in Illinois, unfortunately. (The
Democrats should of course be opposed on this point.) The best we can do in
the near future seems to be a progressive income tax and social subsidies,
including perhaps the state single-payer system that you've been working
for.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Regards, CGE<BR>> >><BR>>
>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:21 PM, David Johnson
<davidjohnson1451@comcast.net<mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net>>
wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >>><BR>> >>> The
differnce is that Rosenberg supports an across the board corporate tax cut
with no conditions.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Carol Ammons "
Technology Zone Program " gives a tax break to a company ONLY if a company
;<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> 1) increases employment by the
greater of 10 % of its current workforce or a minimum of 3 new full-time
employees<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> 2) Pays wages of 20 % or
more above the median income of Champaign County<BR>> >>><BR>>
>>> 3) Employ a minimum of 5 full-time employees<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> Not to mention that Rosenberg is an attorney
who works for Carle Clinic and takes poor and elderly people to court for not
paying hospital bills.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> Carol has
been a community activist for over a decade, opposing the : Police, States
Attorney and other local officials / vested interests at times when necessary
in the pursuit of social justice.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>
Again, the choice is clear to me who would be the better advocate for Working
people in the 103rd District<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> David
Johnson<BR>> >>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >>>
From: C. G. Estabrook<BR>> >>> To: David Johnson<BR>>
>>> Cc:
<"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@mail0.frost.chambana.net><BR>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:29 PM<BR>> >>>
Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> Didn't Carol support 'enterprise zones'
(under another name), which are even more substantial corporate tax cats - for
favored corporations?<BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:24 PM, David Johnson
<davidjohnson1451@comcast.net<mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net>>
wrote:<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>> I just returned from the
Ammons vs. Rosenberg debate, for the Illinois 103rd State Rep Democratic
Primary race.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> The major
differences between the two candidates were ;<BR>> >>>><BR>>
>>>> Rosenberg SUPPORTS cutting corporate taxes and OPPOSES the $
15.00 per hour minimum wage.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>
Carol Ammons in contrast OPPOSES cutting corporate taxes and SUPPORTS the $
15.00 per hour minimum wage.<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>>
Rosenberg also stated that Carol Ammons experience in local government on the
County Board and the Urbana City Council does NOT make her more qualified than
him in terms of experience.<BR>> >>>> He stated that ;<BR>>
>>>> " Springfield is a different BEAST than local government and
I am more qualified to deal with that."<BR>> >>>><BR>>
>>>> The difference could not be any clearer to me.<BR>>
>>>><BR>> >>>> What was also interesting was that I
submitted TWO questions for the candidates, first via e-mail several days
before the debate and early on at the debate.<BR>> >>>> Neither
question was asked !<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> The
questions were ;<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> 1) Would
you be willing to co-sponsor the current House Bill to enact a universal
health care system in Illinois ( H.B. 942 ).<BR>> >>>><BR>>
>>>> and<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> 2)
Would you co-sponsor House Bill H.B. 3754 that would dissolve the Illinois
Charter School Commision<BR>> >>>><BR>> >>>> I
wonder why the Moderators avoided asking these questions ?<BR>>
>>>><BR>> >>>> David Johnson<BR>>
>><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >
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