<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">The trick is determining when you have to shoot.<div><br></div><div>The pacifists, bloody optimists, say, "Never."</div><div><br></div><div>We conservatives, following Augustine, say, "Sometimes, but it isn't easy to decide..." <div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:31 PM, ewjohnson via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">The overwhelming event here is being blasted out of the sky by a rocket.<br><br>Crashing after a rocket strike is fairly standard.<br><br>The possibilities are cut way back when you consider how many<br>carriers have flights through there, and what the types of airplanes that make<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>the trip.<br><br>It is a hostile Zone.<br><br>But for travelers and the management of Malaysian Airlines it<br>it seems like bad karma catching up or some such thing,<br>not a random event.<br><br>It seems like a shoot first ask questions later situation relative to those on the ground<br>with the artillery. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." -Tuco.<br><br><br>On 07/27/2014 06:28 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote:<br><blockquote cite="mid:1406456906.16489.YahooMailNeo@web163204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" type="cite"><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div class=""><span class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I'm looking forward to all the tinfoil comments I'll receive from this, but the math doesn't lie.</span></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">In the U.S. the odds are 1 in 270,417 (9,748,551 commercial flights/36.5 US commercial crashes) of being killed in a commercial plane crash. </span></span><span class="" style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">avg. # commercial flights @yr / avg # crashes @ yr. = odds of a specific flight crashing</span></div><div class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="">also see:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm" class=""> http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm</a></span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="">and globally it's very safe to fly: </span><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"> </span><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;">In 1998, the world’s commercial jet airlines carried approximately 1.3 billion people on 18 million flights while suffering 10 fatal accidents. (18,000,000/10).... one in 180,000,000</span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;">So....</span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;">To calculate odds of one of us being killed in a Boeing 777 plane and belonging to Malaysian Airlines would be 180,000,000 x # different commercial aircraft x # of commercial airline companies. Let's say 200 kinds of planes to just make a wild guess and 200 commercial airline companies So now the odds of crashing in a 777s are 180,000,000 x 200 x 200....it's in the one in trillions range (7.2 E+12).... a calculator can't display it without scientific notation.</span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;">Or the odds of two Boeing 777s belonging to Malaysian Airlines crashing would be one in 18 million x 200 x 200 = (1:7.2 E+11)....astronomically unlikely....not even considering the crashes happening within 4 months of each other....???</span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Element-1-Frame" role="textbox" aria-readonly="true" style="color: rgb(17, 17, 17); margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; line-height: normal; word-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);"><nobr class="" style="-webkit-transition: none; transition: none; border: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; vertical-align: 0px;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-1" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 3.213em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 2.966em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.299em 1000.003em 2.349em -0.552em); top: -2.157em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-3" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">I'm dangerous at mathematics and these numbers could be substantially wrong , but are not unreasonable.... and this is getting way over my head....but has something to do with:</span></span></span></span></span></nobr></span></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; font-style: normal; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Element-2-Frame" role="textbox" aria-readonly="true" style="color: rgb(17, 17, 17); margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline; line-height: normal; word-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);"><nobr class="" style="-webkit-transition: none; transition: none; border: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; vertical-align: 0px;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-6" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 3.892em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 3.583em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.299em 1000.003em 2.534em -0.614em); top: -2.157em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.164em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px 0px 0px 0.003em; border-left-style: solid; vertical-align: -0.263em; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; overflow: hidden; width: 0px; height: 1.07em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></nobr></span></span><span class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254); color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-13" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-14" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-15" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-16" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0.003em; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Size3; background-color: transparent;">(</span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-17" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 0.62em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px -0.306em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.485em 1000.003em 2.287em -0.552em); top: -2.775em; left: 5.015625px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-18" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">n</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px -0.244em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.299em 1000.003em 2.349em -0.491em); top: -1.478em; left: 5.015625px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-19" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">2</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.164em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-20" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0.003em; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Size3; background-color: transparent;">)</span></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-21" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 0.929em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.485em 1000.003em 2.472em -0.614em); top: -2.096em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-22" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.528em; left: 0.497em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-23" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">2</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-24" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">(</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-25" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-26" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-27" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-28" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 1.793em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.238em 1000.003em 2.596em -0.491em); top: -2.157em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-29" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">)</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.164em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.59em; left: 0.373em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-30" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-31" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-32" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">n</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-33" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-34" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">2 </span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="" style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);">or </span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-37" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-38" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-39" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 0.929em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.485em 1000.003em 2.472em -0.614em); top: -2.096em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-40" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.528em; left: 0.497em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-41" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">0</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-42" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">(</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-43" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-44" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-45" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-46" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 1.793em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.238em 1000.003em 2.596em -0.491em); top: -2.157em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-47" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">)</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.164em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.59em; left: 0.373em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-48" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-49" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-50" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">n</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-51" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-52" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">0</span></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-53" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-54" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;">n</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-55" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 0.929em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.485em 1000.003em 2.472em -0.614em); top: -2.096em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-56" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.528em; left: 0.497em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-57" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.102em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span></span></span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-58" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">(</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-59" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-60" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-61" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 0.25em; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;">p</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-62" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 1.793em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; clip: rect(1.238em 1000.003em 2.596em -0.491em); top: -2.157em; left: 0.003em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-63" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">)</span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: static; width: 0px; height: 2.164em; background-color: transparent;"></span></span><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.59em; left: 0.373em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-64" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-65" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-66" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Math-italic; background-color: transparent;">n</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-67" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">−</span><span class="" id="MathJax-Span-68" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;">1 </span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-style: normal; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 1.793em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.59em; left: 0.373em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;"><br class=""></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-style: normal; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="white-space: nowrap; word-spacing: normal; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 1.793em; height: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; top: -2.59em; left: 0.373em; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: 0px; -webkit-transition: none; transition: none; display: inline; position: static; font-family: MathJax_Main; background-color: transparent;"><br class=""></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="line-height: 19px; color: rgb(205, 35, 44); font-weight: bold; font-size: 32px;">In other words the plane crashes are related somehow beyond the possibility of pure chance!</span></div><div class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; color: rgb(205, 35, 44); font-size: 32px; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="line-height: 19px; color: rgb(205, 35, 44); font-weight: bold; font-size: 32px;">Jim Fetzer is on to something?</span></div><div class="" style="background-color: transparent;"><span class=""><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17" class="">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17</a></span><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="background-color: transparent;"><span class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Boeing_777-200ER_Malaysia_AL_%28MAS%29_9M-MRO_-_MSN_28420_404_%289272090094%29.jpg/270px-Boeing_777-200ER_Malaysia_AL_%28MAS%29_9M-MRO_-_MSN_28420_404_%289272090094%29.jpg" alt="Photograph of the missing aircraft taking off at
Roissy-Charles de Gaulle Airport (LFPG) in France, 2011" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Airlines_MH370" class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Airlines_MH370</a><br class=""></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_%286658105143%29.jpg/255px-Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_%286658105143%29.jpg" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-size: 15px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px;">and there is an interesting buzz (Daily Paul) about an identical plane being stored in Israel.....Just sayin'</span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="background-color: transparent;"><span class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Arial;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dailypaul.com/315435/why-is-a-malaysian-airliner-identical-to-the-missing-one-being-stored-in-tel-aviv" class="">Why is a Malaysian Airliner Identical to the Missing One Being Stored in Tel Aviv? | Peace . Gold . LOVE</a></span><br class=""></span></div><div id="enhancrCard_3" class="link-enhancr-attachment
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link-enhancr-element" style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 20px; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); max-height: 81px; font-family: Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif; overflow: hidden;">What are the odds? Why would Israel have a plane identical to the missing Malaysia Airlines plane in storage in Tel Aviv?</div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="link-enhancr-element" style="height: 4px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 0pt; border-collapse: collapse;"><br></td></tr><tr><td class="link-enhancr-element" style="vertical-align: middle; font-family: Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="font-size: 0pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dailypaul.com/315435/why-is-a-malaysian-airliner-identical-to-the-missing-one-being-stored-in-tel-aviv" class="link-enhancr-card-url link-enhancr-element" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none !important; cursor: pointer !important;"><span class="link-enhancr-element
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His lodger (who was in debt to Prance), John Wren, testified that he had been away for the four nights before Godfrey's body was discovered. Bedloe claimed to recognize him. Both statements are now thought to be lies, but this did not help Prance.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">On 23 – 24 December, Prance announced that he had had a part in the murder but that the main instigators were three Catholic priests: Thomas Godden, head of the secular English clergy, and two Irish priests, Kelly and Fitzgerald. These priests witnessed the murder in the courtyard of Somerset House where Godfrey had been lured. Godfrey had been strangled and his body taken to Hampstead. Prance named as the actual killers three working men, Robert Green, Henry Berry and Lawrence Hill, who were arrested. Godden fled the country, while the two Irish priests simply vanished. As with most solutions to the murder, the main weakness was the absence of a plausible motive. Prance could only say, vaguely, that Godfrey had been harassing the priests in some way, which seems unlikely as he was noted for tolerance in religious matters.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">Prance later recanted his confession before the king and the council and was thrown back to prison: he was threatened with torture, and nearly froze to death. As a result he recanted his recantation and recanted two more times, ending up verifying his original story. At the trial he was a highly credible witness, although Hill's wife rightly prophesied "we shall see him recant after, when it is too late". [10]The three men were sentenced to death 5 February 1679 and hanged at Primrose Hill.<i class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For a time this was known as "Greenberry Hill", because of the hangings of Green, Berry and Hill.</i><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">Prance's story was later discredited and he pleaded guilty to perjury. Because the three men were executed on false evidence, and historians accept their complete innocence, the murder remains officially unsolved.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">....<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">There have been many theories of what really happened to Godfrey and who killed him. He might have been murdered either by Catholics, who could have been afraid that he knew some of their<i class=""><b class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>real secrets</b></i>; supporters of Oates because of his contacts to Catholics or because he knew Oates was lying; or just by random hooligans. Some claim suicide, either because Godfrey was in a quandary between Catholics and Anglicans and, due to his contacts to Coleman, possibly under suspicion or just because of his melancholy nature.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">[There is no mention whatsoever of<i class=""><b class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jewry</b></i>, so I find the whole<br class="" clear="none">matter to be highly suspicious. - ewj]<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><div class="" id="yiv6549026363yqtfd62974"><div class="">On 07/27/2014 10:56 AM, ewjohnson via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="" clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote></div></div><div class="" id="yiv6549026363yqtfd80709"><div class="">I think this should help clear things up:<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">"In the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">New York Herald,</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nov. 26, 1911, there is an account of the hanging of three men, for the murder of Sir Edmund Berry Godfrey, on Greenberry Hill, London.<sup class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> </sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The names of the murderers were Green, Berry, and Hill." - Charles Hoy Fort, "Wild Talents", 1932.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">In correspondence to H. Allen Smith in 1932, H. L. Mencken denounced Charles Fort as a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">quack</i></b>. (quoted in H. A. Smith, "Low Man on a Totem Pole", 1941).<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">Accounts of Fort and the Fortean Society generally quote HL Mencken as a follower of Fort, a thing which Mencken vehemently denies in his correspondence to Smith (see above), who had included Mencken's name among other Forteans in an 1932 obituary of CH Fort.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none">PS: C.H. Fort did not invent FORTRAN.<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"><div class="">On 07/27/2014 06:59 AM, David Gehrig via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="" clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote></div><div class=""><div class="">On Jul 26, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss <<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<br class="" clear="none"><br class="" clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-weight: bold;">David,</span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="font-weight: bold;">I can't help just being a product of my research....</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class="" clear="none"></div><div class="">When you're "researching" in a sewer, it's no surprise that everything you fish out is a pile of crap. </div><div class=""><br class="" clear="none"></div><div class="">For the heck of it, I wandered over to "Veterans Today," the toilet you mistake for a feeding trough. Foilhatted Fetzer has figured out who knocked down MH17: Israel, of course! <span class="">"In case anyone misses the point, the plane that went down in Ukraine appears to be the same plane that</span><span class="" style="display: inline;"> disappeared in Southeast Asia, Malaysian 370. The passengers appear to have been killed, perhaps en route to Diego Garcia, and the plane taken to Ukraine as part of an Israeli plan to distract attention from its slaughter in Gaza."</span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="display: inline;"><br class="" clear="none"></span></div><div class="">Lunatic. Just a freakin' ravin' lunatic. But you'll follow him anywhere, even into Holocaust denial. Why? Because "Veterans Today" has eaten your brain. </div><div class=""><br class="" clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-weight: bold;">Every piece of history can be connected to it precisely because</span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class="" clear="none"></div><div class="">Precisely because you're insane. </div><br class="" clear="none"><div class="">@%<</div><br class="" clear="none"><fieldset class=""></fieldset><br class="" clear="none"><pre class="">_______________________________________________
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