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    Is Herb Stein's law Sustainable?<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/15/2014 10:43 PM, Carl G.
      Estabrook wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:32E4C517-1355-402C-A318-CA8DE0346B1A@illinois.edu"
      type="cite">
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      Some cold comfort in Herb Stein's Law: “If something cannot go on
      forever, it will stop.”
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On Aug 15, 2014, at 8:56 AM, ewjohnson via Peace-discuss
            <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div>
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              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> As long as Hillary
                Clnton and Barack Obama are running around live and
                loose,<br>
                there is no such thing as Justice in the USA, <br>
                there is only the mockery of Justice,<br>
                and no one should be punished for any crime, <br>
                small or great, as long as Obama is allowed to <br>
                openly flaunt the law, <br>
                spit on the constitution, and<br>
                attempt to ride over every fundamental principle <br>
                of determining + and -.<br>
                <br>
                Actually I don't know real outcome yet, as none of us
                do...<br>
                <br>
                yet it has been observed...<br>
                <br>
                <blockquote><i>Though the mills of God grind slowly;</i><br>
                  <i>Yet they grind exceeding small;</i><br>
                  <i>Though with patience he stands waiting,</i><br>
                  <i>With exactness grinds he all.</i><br>
                </blockquote>
                <i><br>
                </i>Or as another fellow  Cicero might have put it in
                longer but straighter words---<br>
                <br>
                <blockquote>"Look here, <br>
                  ya ignorant son-of- a-lab-rat.<br>
                  They aint No One gonna get away with this fo-ever.<br>
                  Quo usque tandem abutere yer dyin' podium,  <br>
                  They ain't no more fuckin' tandem for you or nostra. 
                  <br>
                  Our patience is completely down to Zero-minus.<br>
                  <br>
                  Time, <br>
                  and WE za people<br>
                  is gonna abutere on yo ass but good.<br>
                  Ni zenme Capisce, <br>
                  "kemo-sabe"?"<br>
                  <br>
                </blockquote>
                An other outcome is the he takes the whole ship down
                with 'im.<br>
                <i><br>
                </i>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/15/2014 08:10 PM,
                  David Johnson via Peace-discuss wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote cite="mid:53EDF8A0.7050205@comcast.net"
                  type="cite">
                  <div class="post-headline">
                    <h1>Top 9 Reasons To Stop Bombing Iraq</h1>
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                      <span class="cat-date-line3"> <a
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                          href="http://www.popularresistance.org/tag/foreign-policy/"
                          rel="tag">Foreign Policy</a>, <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
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                      <span class="cat-date-line4">By David Swanson, <a
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                        August 14th, 2014</span><br>
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                    <p><big><big><strong>1. It’s not a rescue mission.</strong> 
                          The U.S. personnel could be evacuated without
                          the 500-pound bombs.  The persecuted
                          minorities could be supplied, moved, or their
                          enemy dissuaded, or all three, without the
                          500-pound bombs or the hundreds of “advisors”
                          (trained and armed to kill, and never
                          instructed in how to give advice — Have you
                          ever tried taking urgent advice from 430
                          people?).  The boy who cried rescue mission
                          should not be allowed to get away with it
                          after the documented deception in Libya where
                          a fictional threat to civilians was used to
                          launch an all-out aggressive attack that has
                          left that nation in ruins.  Not to mention the
                          false claims about Syrian chemical weapons and
                          the false claim that missiles were the only
                          option left for Syria — the latter claims
                          being exposed when the former weren’t
                          believed, the missiles didn’t launch, and less
                          violent but perfectly obvious alternative
                          courses of action were recognized.  If the
                          U.S. government were driven by a desire to
                          rescue the innocent, why would it be arming
                          Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain?  The U.S.
                          government destroyed the nation of Iraq
                          between 2003 and 2011, with results including
                          the near elimination of various minority
                          groups.  If preventing genocide were a
                          dominant U.S. interest, it could have halted
                          its participation in and aggravation of that
                          war at any time, a war in which 97% of the
                          dead were on one side, just as in Gaza this
                          month — the distinction between war and
                          genocide being one of perspective, not
                          proportions.  Or, of course, the U.S. could
                          have left well alone.  Ever since President
                          Carter declared that the U.S. would kill for
                          Iraqi oil, each of his successors has believed
                          that course of action justified, and each has
                          made matters significantly worse.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>2. It’s going to make things
                            worse, again.</strong>  This bombing will
                          aggravate the Sunni-Shia divide, increase
                          support for ISIS, and create a lasting legacy
                          of hostility and violence.  President Obama
                          says there is no military solution, only
                          reconciliation.  But bombs don’t reconcile. 
                          They harden hearts and breed murderers. 
                          Numerous top U.S. officials admit that much of
                          what the U.S. military does generates more
                          enemies than it kills.  When you continue down
                          a path that is counterproductive on its own
                          terms, the honesty of those terms has to be
                          doubted.  If this war is not for peace, is it
                          perhaps — like every other war we’ve seen the
                          U.S. wage in the area — for resources,
                          profits, domination, and sadism?  The leader
                          of ISIS learned his hatred in a U.S. prison in
                          Iraq.  U.S. media report that fact as if it is
                          just part of the standard portrait of a new
                          Enemy #1, but the irony is not mere
                          coincidence.  Violence is created. It doesn’t
                          arise out of irrational and inscrutable
                          foreignness.  It is planted by those great
                          gardeners in the sky: planes, drones, and
                          helicopters.  A bombing campaign justified as
                          protecting people actually endangers them, and
                          those around them, and many others, including
                          those of us living in the imperial Homeland.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>3. Bombs kill.</strong>  Big
                          bombs kill a lot of people.  Massive bombing
                          campaigns slaughter huge numbers of people,
                          including those fighting in the hell the U.S.
                          helped to create, and including those not
                          fighting — men, women, children, grandparents,
                          infants.  Defenders of the bombing know this,
                          but ignore it, and make no effort to calculate
                          whether more people are supposedly being saved
                          than are being killed.  This indifference
                          exposes the humanitarian pretensions of the
                          operation.  If some humans are of no value to
                          you, humanitarianism is not what’s driving
                          your decisions.  The U.S. war on Iraq ’03-’11
                          killed a half million to a million-and-a-half
                          Iraqis and 4,000 Americans.  A war that puts
                          fewer Americans on the ground and uses more
                          planes and drones is thought of as involving
                          less death only if our concern is narrowly
                          limited to U.S. deaths.  From the vantage
                          point of the ground, an air war is the
                          deadliest form of war there is.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>4. There are other options.</strong> 
                          The choice between bombing and doing nothing
                          is as false now as it was in September.  If
                          you can drop food on some people, why can’t
                          you drop food on everyone?  It would cost a
                          tiny fraction of dropping bombs on them.  It
                          would confuse the hell out of them, too — like
                          Robin Williams’ version of God high on pot and
                          inventing the platypus.  Of course, I now
                          sound crazy because I’m talking about people
                          who’ve been demonized (and personified in a
                          killer straight out of a U.S. prison).  It’s
                          not as if these are human beings with whom you
                          can lament the death of Robin Williams. 
                          They’re not like you and me.  Etc.  Yadda. 
                          Yadda.  But in fact ISIS fighters were sharing
                          their appreciation of Williams on Twitter on
                          Tuesday.  The United States could talk about
                          other matters with ISIS as well, including a
                          ceasefire, including a unilateral commitment
                          to cease arming the Iraqi government even
                          while trying to organize its ouster, including
                          an offer to provide real humanitarian aid with
                          no nasty strings attached, but with
                          encouragement of civil liberties and
                          democratic decision making. It’s amazing how
                          long minority ethnic groups in Iraq survived
                          and thrived prior to the U.S. bringing
                          democracy, and prior to the U.S. existing. 
                          The U.S. could do some good but must first do
                          no harm.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>5. There are now enough weapons
                            already there to practically justify one of
                            Colin Powell’s slides retroactively.  </strong>The
                          U.S. accounts for 79% of foreign weapons
                          transfers to Western Asia (the Middle East). 
                          The war on Libya had identical U.S. weapons on
                          both sides.  ISIS almost certainly has weapons
                          supplied by the U.S. in Syria, and certainly
                          has weapons taken from Iraq.  So, what is the
                          U.S. doing?  It’s rushing more weapons to Iraq
                          as fast as possible.  Americans like to think
                          of the Middle East as backward and violent,
                          but the tools of the violence trade are
                          manufactured in the United States.  Yes, the
                          United States does still manufacture
                          something, it’s just not something that serves
                          any useful purpose or about which most of us
                          can manage to feel very proud.  Weapons making
                          also wastes money rather than creating it,
                          because unaccountable profits are the single
                          biggest product manufactured.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>6. This is going to cost a
                            fortune.</strong>  Bombing Iraq is depicted
                          as a measure of great restraint and
                          forbearance.  Meanwhile building schools and
                          hospitals and green energy infrastructure in
                          Iraq would be viewed as madness if anyone
                          dared propose it.  But the latter would cost a
                          lot less money — a consideration that is
                          usually a top priority in U.S. politics
                          whenever killing large numbers of people is
                          not involved.  The world spend $2 trillion and
                          the U.S. $1 trillion (half the total) on war
                          and war preparations every year.  Three
                          percent of U.S. military spending could end
                          starvation on earth.  The wonders that could
                          be done with a fraction of military money are
                          almost unimaginable and include actual defense
                          against the actual danger of climate change.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>7. Bombs are environmental
                            disasters.</strong>  If someone photographs
                          a big oil fire, some will give a thought to
                          the environmental damage.  But a bombing
                          campaign is, rather than an environmental
                          accident, an intentional environmental
                          catastrophe.  The poisoned ground and water,
                          and the disease epidemics, will reach the
                          United States primarily through moral regret,
                          depression, and suicide.</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>8. There go our civil
                            liberties.</strong>  Discussions of torture,
                          imprisonment, assassination, surveillance, and
                          denial of fair trials are severely damaged by
                          wartime postures.  After all, war is for
                          “freedom,” and who wouldn’t be willing to
                          surrender all of their freedoms for that?</big></big></p>
                    <big><big> </big></big>
                    <p><big><big><strong>9. War is illegal.</strong>  It
                          doesn’t matter if the illegitimate government
                          that you’re trying to dump invited you to bomb
                          its country.  How can anyone take that
                          seriously, while the U.S. installed that
                          government and has armed it for years, as it
                          has attacked its people?  War is illegal under
                          the Kellogg Briand Pact and the United Nations
                          Charter, and pretending otherwise endangers
                          the world.  Domestically, under U.S. law, the
                          president cannot launch a war.  While the
                          Senate has been silent, the U.S. House voted
                          two weeks ago to ban any new presidential war
                          on Iraq.  Offering Congress a slap in the
                          face, Obama waited for it to go on break, and
                          then attacked Iraq.</big></big></p>
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