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-------- Original Message --------
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
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<td>Re: [Peace-discuss] Help Prog. Caucus move DC on war
vote</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 14 Oct 2014 22:55:00 -0500</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>David Johnson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davidjohnson1451@comcast.net"><davidjohnson1451@comcast.net></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Carl G. Estabrook <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a></td>
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<font size="+3">Yes,<br>
<br>
In fact the Turkish army is mobilized on their border with Iran
and Syria to prevent Kurds from Turkey who want to take
supplies and volunteer as fighters against ISIS in Kobani.<br>
The U.S. and Turkey want the destruction of Kobani and Rojava,
because the good example of Rojava is a threat.<br>
ISIS on the other hand is part of their plan.<br>
<br>
David J.<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/14/2014 10:28 PM, Carl G.
Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:5A22F41A-64FD-4D84-BC8E-73789828600D@illinois.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/turkish-warplanes-hit-kurdish-rebel-positions-near-iraq-border-9793040.html">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/turkish-warplanes-hit-kurdish-rebel-positions-near-iraq-border-9793040.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the Obama administration ordered Turkey to stop
attacking its minority, it would have to do so, just as Israel
would have. But they don't.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That they do not do so in either case is instructive: the
US wants war - it provides the excuse for US control of the
region - but has to appear not to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In 2011 the Obama administration used a real threat to
Benghazi to obtain a UN resolution which it then fraudulently
used as an excuse for a war crime, the attack on Libya (also
illegal under American law, altho' hardly a consideration). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They are now using a real threat to Kobani to gin up
support for their ongoing war crimes in Syria and Iraq. (They
aren't bothering with the UN resolution, as they are required
to do, because they know they can't get it, the rest of the
world seeing through their machinations.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your organization and MoveOn seem to be supporting their
charade instead of insisting that the US withdraw from the
region, submit the matter to the UN, and support the regional
powers (such as Rojava), which US-client Turkey is notably
refusing to do (with tacit US acquiescence). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Isn't it obvious that a "limited" AUMF is another charter
for the war the administration is promoting, rather than a
check on it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, CGE</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 13, 2014, at 4:04 PM, Robert Naiman <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi, Carl. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
1. I disagree that Kobane now equals Benghazi then, for
many reasons that I won't go into right now because I'm
up against a writing deadline, but am happy to come back
to later on this thread or elsewhere. For example, as
you yourself noted, Chomsky has joined others in calling
for a Turkey to allow a "humanitarian corridor" to
protect Kobane.
<div>2. We are not calling for people to support the
U.S. war against ISIS. We think it's a foregone
conclusion that Congress will overwhelmingly vote yes
on any AUMF that reaches the floor. We think that
whether there a few or fewer no votes will have little
long-term positive impact, so we are not campaigning
for a no vote. Instead, we are campaigning for any
AUMF to prohibit the use of ground combat forces and
to be narrow and limited, as the Progressive Caucus
has called for. We think that these are winnable
fights that if won will have a significant, positive
long-term impact.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In particular, we are campaigning for any AUMF to
have a time limit, a "sunset," as I wrote in my Nation
piece in August. And we want the sunset to be as short
as possible. So far, Kaine's is the best: one year. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, we want the targets of any AUMF to be named
and limited, e.g. limited to ISIS, Nusra, and other Al
Qaeda type groups, as in Kaine's AUMF.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finally, we want Congress to impose public
reporting requirements on civilian casualties from
U.S. airstrikes, so we won't continue the "he said/she
said" unaccountability soap opera on civilian
casualties of the drone strike policy, which has, as I
predicted, already started with respect to U.S.
airstrikes in Syria. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These points are explained in the text and
background of our MoveOn petition in support of the
Progressive Caucus resolution:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Help the Progressive Caucus Limit the Iraq-Syria
war<br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/help-the-progressive?source=c.em&r_by=1135580">http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/help-the-progressive?source=c.em&r_by=1135580</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">All best,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
RN<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
===</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Policy Director<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/"
target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target="_blank">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<div><span style="text-align:left">(202) 448-2898
x1</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:59
AM, Carl G. Estabrook <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Bob--
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>'...mere slogans of “no war” and “stop
the bombing” aren’t morally, politically, or
strategically sufficient right now...'</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's a curiously periphrastic way to call
for support for the Obama administration's war
in the Mideast. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It suggests that you do recognize that
you're reversing what you seemed formerly to
be saying about a 'just foreign policy.' </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kobane seems to be playing something like
the role that Benghazi did in the preparation
for the US/NATO attack on Libya.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>'When a non-violent uprising began, Qaddafi
crushed it violently, and a rebellion broke
out that liberated Benghazi, Libya's second
largest city, and seemed about to move on to
Qaddafi's stronghold in the West. His forces,
however, reversed the course of the conflict
and were at the gates of Benghazi. A slaughter
in Benghazi was likely, and as Obama's Middle
East adviser Dennis Ross pointed out,
"everyone would blame us for it." That would
be unacceptable, as would a Qaddafi military
victory enhancing his power and independence.
The US then joined in UN Security Council
resolution 1973 calling for a no-fly zone, to
be implemented by France, the UK, and the
US, with the US supposed to move to
a supporting role.</div>
<br>
'There was no effort to institute a no-fly zone.
The triumvirate at once interpreted the
resolution as authorizing direct participation
on the side of the rebels. A ceasefire was
imposed by force on Qaddafi's forces, but not on
the rebels. On the contrary, they were given
military support as they advanced to the West,
soon securing the major sources of Libya's oil
production, and poised to move on.<br>
<br>
'The blatant disregard of UN 1973, from the
start began to cause some difficulties for the
press as it became too glaring to ignore. In
the New York Times, for example, Karim Fahim and
David Kirkpatrick (March 29) wondered "how the
allies could justify airstrikes on
Colonel Qaddafi's forces around [his tribal
center] Surt if, as seems to be the case, they
enjoy widespread support in the city and pose no
threat to civilians." Another technical
difficulty is that UNSC 1973 "called for an arms
embargo that applies to the entire territory of
Libya, which means that any outside supply of
arms to the opposition would have to be covert"
(but otherwise unproblematic).' [Noam Chomsky]
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--CGE<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Oct 13, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Robert
Naiman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:noreply@list.moveon.org"
target="_blank">noreply@list.moveon.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear C G
ESTABROOK,<br>
<br>
Yesterday I wrote to you, urging you to
sign and share our MoveOn petition
urging the Obama Administration to do
all it can to pressure Turkey to allow
Kurds to save Kurds resisting the ISIS
siege of Kobane:<br>
<br>
Obama: Press Turkey to Stop Massacre of
Syrian Kurds <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/save-kobane"
target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/save-kobane</a><br>
<br>
Press reports since Friday have made me
cautiously optimistic that Kobane can
still be saved. Kurdish defenders are
fighting bravely and creatively, and
having some success in holding ISIS
back. Tens of thousands of Kurds
demonstrated in Germany on Saturday,
showing that world Kurdish public
opinion has not given up on saving
Kobane. And while I don’t think that the
Obama Administration is yet doing all
that it could be doing in terms of
putting pressure on Turkey, the Obama
Administration is clearly doing some
things that are helping Kurdish
defenders save Kobane – so say Kurdish
officials in Kobane.<br>
<br>
To me, the situation in Kobane shows
that – contrary to what some people on
the left have been saying – mere slogans
of “no war” and “stop the bombing”
aren’t morally, politically, or
strategically sufficient right now for
Americans who are rightly concerned
about endless war to engage Washington
and U.S. public opinion about the war
against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. In my
view, Americans are right to be
concerned about civilians threatened by
ISIS, and right to have sympathy for
civilians threatened by ISIS who support
some degree of U.S. military
intervention against ISIS.<br>
<br>
This is a key reason why – again,
contrary to what some people on the left
have been saying – I think that the
Congressional Progressive Caucus was
very wise to stake out a more nuanced
position than simply “supporting” or
“opposing” the war. And this is a key
reason why Just Foreign Policy is
supporting the CPC resolution, which
neither supports nor opposes the war per
se, but says that Congress should debate
and vote on the war, just like the U.S.
Constitution and the majority of
Americans say, that no U.S. ground
combat troops should be used, just like
President Obama and the majority of
Americans say, and that any
Congressional authorization of force
should be narrow and limited, just as
the Obama Administration has said.<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, we are doing petition
delivery events at local Congressional
offices in support of the CPC resolution
together with Progressives for
Democratic Action. I’m sorry for the
late notice if you are seeing this
information for the first time; I
originally planned to write you about
this over the weekend, but we diverted
ourselves to address the Kobane
emergency.<br>
<br>
Here is the alert that we sent to the
Just Foreign Policy list on Friday
evening. At this writing, we have almost
ten thousand signatures on our petition
in support of the CPC resolution.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all you do for justice,<br>
Robert Naiman, Just Foreign Policy<br>
<br>
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