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"You'd pay to know what you really think" - JR ("Bob") Dobbs<br>
<br>
Opinion polls seem to be a monitoring system and data device for <br>
the Amerikan propaganda system.<br>
<br>
Opinion polls are a sort of post-training assessment tool<br>
that allows the propaganda machine to monitor how well<br>
the populace is taking up the memes, and how<br>
well the memes have become integrated into the response.<br>
<br>
The dog salivates on command. <br>
The bell system they say.<br>
Opinion polls ring the bell. <br>
School's out.<br>
The masses drool.<br>
<br>
(I think that could be a Haiku with some work.)<br>
<br>
Islamic State is perhaps Not just a bunch of good guys poorly
understood,<br>
but I can surely understand why they should be angry.<br>
<br>
One is hard put to say that those in opposition to Islamic State is<br>
really "better" than Islamic State.<br>
<br>
"Movin' on" probably ought to change its name to Shameless.<br>
<br>
But perhaps folks know that's what it means.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/19/2014 05:16 AM, C. G. Estabrook
via Peace-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:5692A4A6-56EE-41FC-A040-2F6B85A3F65B@newsfromneptune.com"
type="cite">Bob--<br>
<br>
You contrast the "ultra-left" with "reform efforts"; the terms are
yours, not in general use.<br>
<br>
Is it your view that the ultra-left are those who say that the
president shouldn't be killing people, but reform efforts disagree
and say he just shouldn't be killing so many, or that he should be
doing it with Congressional approbation?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In my youth, we didn't say, "Hey, hey, LBJ, you killed too
many kids today (you should have killed just enough)." </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We should oppose approval for Obama's killing, even if it's
backhanded.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kathy Kelly writes as follows (from the last AWARE
leaflet):</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>================</div>
<div>STOP THE KILLING</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>“I want to make a special appeal to soldiers, national
guardsmen, and policemen: each of you is one of us.
The peasants you kill are your own brothers and sisters.
When you hear a man telling you to kill, remember God’s
words, ‘thou shalt not kill.’ No soldier is obliged to obey
a law contrary to the law of God. In the name of God, in
the name of our tormented people, I beseech you, I
implore you; in the name of God I command you to stop the
repression.”<br>
</i>--Abp. Óscar Romero of San Salvador, 23 March 1980, the
day before he was shot and killed while saying mass - by
US-trained paramilitary soldiers, during the Carter
administration’s attempt to suppress the revolution in El
Salvador<br>
<br>
As we approach the nightmare of renewed, expanded US war in
Iraq, I think of Archbishop Romero’s words and example. Romero
aligned himself, steadily, with the most impoverished people
in El Salvador, learning about their plight by listening to
them every weekend in the program he hosted on
Salvadoran radio. With ringing clarity, he spoke out on their
behalf, and he jeopardized his life challenging the elites,
the military and the paramilitaries in El Salvador.<br>
<br>
I believe we should try very hard to hear the grievances of
people in Iraq and the region, including those who have joined
the Islamic State, regarding US policies and wars that have
radically affected their lives and well-being over the past
three decades. It could be that many of the Iraqis who are
fighting with Islamic State forces lived through Saddam
Hussein’s oppression when he received enthusiastic support
from the US during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. Many may be
survivors of the US Desert Storm bombing in 1991, which
destroyed every electrical facility across Iraq. When the
US insisted on imposing crushing and murderous economic
sanctions on Iraq for the next 13 years, these sanctions
directly contributed to the deaths of a half million children
under age five. The children who died should have been
teenagers now; are some of the Islamic State fighters the
brothers or cousins of the children who were punished to death
by economic sanctions? Presumably many of these fighters
lived through the US-led 2003 Shock and Awe invasion and
bombing of Iraq and the chaos the US chose to create
afterwards by using a war-shattered country as some sort
of free market experiment; they’ve endured the
repressive corruption of the regime the US helped install in
Saddam’s place.<br>
<b><br>
The United Nations should take over the response to the
Islamic State, and people should continue to pressure the US
and its allies to leave the response not merely to the U.N.
but to its most democratic constituent body, the General
Assembly.</b><br>
<br>
But facing the bloody mess that has developed in Iraq and
Syria, I think Archbishop Romero’s exhortation to the
Salvadoran soldiers pertains directly to US people. Suppose
these words were slightly rewritten: I want to make a
special appeal to the people of the United States. Each of you
is one of us. The peoples you kill are your own brothers and
sisters. When you hear a person telling you to kill, remember
God’s words, "thou shalt not kill." No soldier is obliged to
obey a law contrary to the law of God. In the name of God, in
the name of our tormented people, I beseech you, I implore you
… I command you to stop the repression.<br>
<br>
The war on the Islamic State will distract us from what the US
has done and is doing to create further despair, in Iraq, and
to enlist new recruits for the Islamic State. The Islamic
State is the echo of the last war the US waged in Iraq, the
so-called "Shock and Awe" bombing and invasion. <b>The emergency
is not the Islamic State but war.</b><br>
<br>
We in the US must give up our notions of exceptionalism;
recognize the economic and societal misery our country caused
in Iraq; recognize that we are a perpetually war-crazed
nation; seek to make reparations; and find dramatic, clear
ways to insist that Romero’s words be heard: <b>Stop
the killing.</b><br>
<br>
--Kathy Kelly, 19 October 2014 </div>
<div>[This article first appeared on Telesur English. Kathy
Kelly (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Kathy@vcnv.org">Kathy@vcnv.org</a>) co-coordinates
Voices for Creative Nonviolence in Chicago.}</div>
<div>
<div>=======================</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>###</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Nov 18, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Robert Naiman <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>
[sf-core] <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sf-core-noreply@yahoogroups.com">sf-core-noreply@yahoogroups.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear Karen,<br>
<br>
You rationalize ignoring Congress on the grounds that
Congress "does not represent the people." But according to
public opinion polls, the American public supports
airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. If Congress
supports airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, then
according to these opinion polls, Congress IS representing
the people. <br>
<br>
If you look around, you will see that people who have a
possibility of achieving something concrete in the political
system on other issues take objective reality as a starting
point. It's a symptom of weakness that the peace movement in
the United States doesn't have strong institutions to try to
defend its interests in the political system, as other
reform interests do. In this vacuum, the ideological
ultra-left has more sway. I suspect, in fact, that the
ultra-left has a tendency to cotton to anti-war issues
precisely because it's an arena where ultra-left,
anti-reform voices perceive that they can have more sway. In
the labor movement, in the environmental movement, in the
women's rights movement, ultra-left voices are a fly on an
elephant. One can easily ignore them, it's obvious that they
have little hope of significant impact. But in the
anti-war movement, there is no elephant. In this context, a
culture has developed of more indulgence of ultra-left
voices, even though they have no more prospect of
accomplishing anything concrete in this arena than they do
in any other arena. These ultra-left voices have a tendency
to try to gain a hearing for themselves by attacking reform
efforts, rather than by organizing their own efforts. <br>
<br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Policy Director<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
(202) 448-2898 x1<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Karen
Aram <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com"><karenaram@hotmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
Robert, we at AWARE have held monthly demonstrations against
war for a long time, including many in addition to the
regular monthly ones. We also have a table at the market
almost every other week throughout the year disseminating
anti-war literature, and on the AWARE tv program we promote
contacting our government leaders in respect to "war". I
have only been involved with AWARE for a year and half, but
others have been active for years, and perhaps could better
address your question. <br>
To be clear, I support, sign and circulate most of your
petitions, but though it may appear petti to denigrate this
particular one, it does in essence reflect the divide
between the Left in America. That is, the sense that
Congress does not represent the people, but rather the
lobbyists representing the 1%. Yes Obama set a precedent
last year by going to Congress for funding, but its not just
about the funding. The debate tends to be when and how to
wage war, how to finance it, not whether we should have it. <br>
Last year Congress successfully refused strikes on Syria,
out of mere opposition to Obama, I congratulate you on your
successful efforts at the time, but this year they have a
"perfect villain", to rally behind in spite of their
opposition to the President. <br>
The issue should be "no war" period. Not about funding it,
there are always ways around funding. <br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:03:59 -0600<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com">karenaram@hotmail.com</a><br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a><br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Congress: no $$ for war without
debate & vote<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
<br>
I look forward to receiving invitations on this list to
future public activities in Champaign-Urbana on the war
attempting to engage Congress, organized by Carl and Karen.<br>
<br>
So far, I see nothing going on. Is there a lot of activity
going on in C-U that I don't know about? Why aren't
invitations to these wonderful activities being posted on
this list?<br>
<br>
<br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Policy Director<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
(202) 448-2898 x1<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Karen
Aram <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com"><karenaram@hotmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
I agree with Carl, while I understand how one might feel
that going to war without congressional approval is wrong,
and we should request congressional approval as a matter of
process, in hopes that funding war will be rejected,
nonetheless I agree that the "big picture" requires we
insist on no war rather than permission or funding for war.<br>
<br>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:52:11 -0600<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:occupy.cu@gmail.com">occupy.cu@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Congress: no $$ for war without
debate & vote<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
We should urge our representative and senators to oppose any
funding for war, period.<br>
<br>
A Congressional "authorization for the use of force" cannot
make mass murder legal under international law.<br>
<br>
America's criminal war-making (and provocations of Russia
and China) is in aid of the economic advantage of the
American one percent - via their control of the Eurasian
economy - and monstrously dangerous to the rest of the
world, including Americans, who pay for it. <br>
<br>
We should instead call upon the Congress to institute
impeachment proceedings against the war-makers in the US
government, starting with the President. <br>
<br>
<br>
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Robert Naiman
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:noreply@list.moveon.org"><noreply@list.moveon.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear C. G. Estabrook,<br>
<br>
The Pentagon has requested $5 billion in new funding for the
new war in Iraq and Syria. But Congress has not yet debated
and voted on an authorization for the use of military
force [AUMF] [1], and budget watchdog groups say the
Pentagon can easily find the money in the massive budgets it
already has. [2] <br>
<br>
Urge your Representative and Senators to oppose any new
funding for war in Iraq and Syria until Congress has debated
and voted on an authorization for the use of force and the
Pentagon has explained why it needs more money on top of the
massive budgets it already has, by signing our petition at
MoveOn.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/no-war-money-without-debate">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/no-war-money-without-debate</a><br>
<br>
I explained why the idea of Congress giving the Pentagon new
tax dollars for the war before Congress debates and votes on
an AUMF is outrageous six ways from Sunday in a piece at
Truthout. You can read and share that here:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/27478-5-billion-for-iraq-syria-war-three-reasons-to-oppose">http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/27478-5-billion-for-iraq-syria-war-three-reasons-to-oppose</a><br>
<br>
Here is the text of our petition at MoveOn:<br>
"Members of Congress should oppose any new funding for war
in Iraq and Syria until Congress has debated and voted on an
Authorization for the Use of Military Force [AUMF] and the
Pentagon has explained why it needs more money on top of the
massive budgets it already has."<br>
Urge your Representative and Senators to stand up for
transparency and accountability by signing and sharing our
petition: <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/no-war-money-without-debate">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/no-war-money-without-debate</a> <br>
<br>
Thanks for all you do to help end, limit, and constrain war
using democracy and the rule of law,<br>
<br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<br>
References: <br>
1. “Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine: We're in ISIS war 'without
legal authority,'” Laura Koran and Ashley Killough, CNN,
November 12,
2014,<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/12/politics/tim-kaine-isis/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/12/politics/tim-kaine-isis/index.html</a><br>
2. “The Pentagon's Budget Bamboozle: Lawmakers should look
very closely at the latest Pentagon funding request,” Ryan
Alexander, Taxpayers for Common Sense, U.S. News & World
Report, Nov. 12,
2014, <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/11/12/congress-should-look-closely-at-pentagon-overseas-funding-requests">http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/11/12/congress-should-look-closely-at-pentagon-overseas-funding-requests</a> <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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