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Security is always an excuse for tyranny.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/24/2015 09:08 AM, Bay, Michael
via Peace-discuss wrote:<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">I do not the remember either the film
or Snowden himself respresent Snowden as a high level NSA
official. He worked as an infrastructure analyst and as Karen
stated, had superior access to the NSA database. <br>
<br>
I doubt that Snowden's publications have resulted in damage to
the United States security. Conversely, the NSA has damaged the
freedom of a number of citizens both from the US and foreign
countries. The fact, that PRISM with secret court approval
allows to collect metadata of any American citizen and that the
same information can be acquired of any foreigner even without
court approval is an outrageous abuse of power and a violation
of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution.
<br>
<br>
The widely claimed justification of "self defense against
terrorism" is refutable. There does not exist evidence for any
single terror attack that has been prevented as a result of the
widespread spying. On the contrary, the NSA has used its
superior knowledge to spy on non-terrorist peaceful
organizations. There exists <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_center#Criticism">
evidence</a> that the NSA also spies on anti-war and peace
activists as well as anarchists.<br>
<br>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in">The extent of espionage has become
so overwhelming that the US government forces providers of
encrypted e-mail services to shut down if they do not agree to
share their data. In August 2013, Lavabit and Silent Circle
closed as a result of US governmental pressure. The owner of
Lavabit service declared that he had preferred to terminate
his 10-year-old business, rather than to violate the rights of
his 400,000 users. He recommended against trusting private
data to any company with physical ties to the US. Silent
circle founder Phil Zimmermann expressed “If privacy becomes
unlawful, then only outlaws maintain privacy.”
<br>
</p>
<br>
Regardless of whether Snowden tells the truth or not, what he
published needed to be published and helped in disclosing severe
espionage by the NSA on the Americans and foreigners, terrorists
and peace activists. The question is, how much security do we
need to protect our freedom and at which point is freedom
sacrificed to achieve an unnecessary degree of security?<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF40788"><font size="2"
face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Peace-discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net</a>] on behalf of
Karen Aram via Peace-discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 23, 2015 5:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roger Helbig; Robert Naiman;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] links: Poitras'
Citizenfour wins Oscar for best documentary<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Roger, I haven't seen the film, but I do
remember from interviews with Snowden when he first made
headlines, not those on the corporate owned media, but
with DemocracyNow, and Snowden never claimed to be a high
level NSA official. He worked for Booz Allen, a government
contractor, along with many others. One of the points he
made was that he wasn't "high level" and yet he had access
to all the information that he did, and found this
very disturbing. <br>
<br>
<div>> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:06:48 -0800<br>
> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
> CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] links: Poitras'
Citizenfour wins Oscar for best documentary<br>
> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
> <br>
> I wonder how many winning documentaries open with a
lie - Snowden<br>
> claiming to be high level NSA official, something
that he never was,<br>
> never examine the lie to see what else is a lie, or
include outright<br>
> lie by one of the film maker participants - the
conference in Brazil<br>
> speech - this selection is a travesty - you do not
award an Oscar to<br>
> what is in effect a PR flack - Snowden played the
media, still is - he<br>
> is a thief who makes grandilose claims, many of
which are not true in<br>
> the least - the only thing true is the damage that
he has done to our<br>
> security by making groups like ISIS aware - I am
sure that none of you<br>
> agree, but if you actually watch this with a
critical eye instead of<br>
> fauning all over your hero, you will realize that
he never was what he<br>
> claims that he is and he personally never could do
things like listen<br>
> to your phone calls like he has claimed to be able
to do. I wonder if<br>
> a campaign can undo an Oscar and result in a public
revocation.<br>
> <br>
> Roger<br>
> <br>
> PS - who paid for the room in the hotel in Hong
Kong - was the phone<br>
> call sequence faked - the only thing real is the
stolen documents and<br>
> we don't see very many of those -<br>
> <br>
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Robert Naiman via
Peace-discuss<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a> wrote:<br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/is-citizenfour-worth-celebrating">http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/is-citizenfour-worth-celebrating</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/23/edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-wins-oscar">http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/23/edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-wins-oscar</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/22/poitras-wins-oscar-for-citizenfour/">https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/22/poitras-wins-oscar-for-citizenfour/</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/22/citizen-four-best-documentary_n_6716094.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/22/citizen-four-best-documentary_n_6716094.html</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > (the last has video of Poitras' acceptance
speech.)<br>
> ><br>
> > It will be quite interesting to see the impact
of this on the debate over<br>
> > the re-authorization of the Patriot Act in
June. Will Hollywood move<br>
> > Congress...?<br>
> ><br>
> > ===<br>
> ><br>
> > Robert Naiman<br>
> > Policy Director<br>
> > Just Foreign Policy<br>
> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
> > (202) 448-2898 x1<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >
_______________________________________________<br>
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> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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