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Grayson rocks.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/27/2015 03:01 AM, C. G. Estabrook
via Peace-discuss wrote:<br>
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<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">"Rep.
Alan Grayson" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com">alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>The
ISIS War Authorization: A Blank Check</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">February
26, 2015 at 10:29:16 AM CST<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0.5em;
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Dear C. G.:
<br>
<br>
So we had a hearing a week ago on ISIS
("we" being the House Foreign Affairs
Committee), and the witnesses were three
experts on U.S. policy in the Middle East,
all dues-paying members of the
Military-Industrial Complex. They were
James Jeffrey, who was Deputy Chief of
Mission at our embassy in Iraq; Rick
Brennan, a political scientist at the Rand
Corp.; and Dafna Rand, who was on the
National Security Council staff. The White
House had just released the President's
draft Authorization for the Use of
Military Force (AUMF) against ISIS, and I
felt that I needed a good translator, so I
asked them what the ISIS war authorization
meant. Their answers were chilling: the
ISIS war authorization means whatever the
President wants it to mean. If you don't
believe me, just listen to them: <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Section 2(c) of the
President's draft Authorization for the
Use of Military Force reads as follows:
"The authority granted in subsection A [to
make war on ISIS and forces 'alongside'
ISIS] does not authorize the use of US
armed forces in enduring offensive ground
combat operations." Ambassador Jeffrey, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">what
does 'enduring' mean?</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> My answer would be a
somewhat sarcastic one: <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">"Whatever
the Executive at the time defines
'enduring' as."</a></b> And I have a
real problem with that. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Brennan? <br>
<br>
<b>BRENNAN:</b> <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">I
have real problems with that also. I
don't know what it means.</a></b> I
can just see the lawyers fighting over the
meaning of this. But more importantly, if
you're looking at committing forces for
something that you are saying is either
[a] vital or important interest of the
United States, and you get in the middle
of a battle, and all of a sudden, are you
on offense, or are you on defense? What
happens if neighbors cause problems? Wars
never end the way that they were
envisioned. And so I think that that's
maybe a terrible mistake to put in the
AUMF. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Rand? <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> Enduring, in my mind,
specifies an open-endedness, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">it
specifies lack of clarity on the
particular objective at hand.</a></b>
<br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Rand, is two weeks
'enduring'? <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> I would leave that to the
lawyers to determine exactly. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> So your answer is [that]
you don't know, right? How about two
months? <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> <b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">I
don't know.</a></b> Again, I think it
would depend on the particular objective,
'enduring' in my mind is not having a
particular military objective in mind. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> So you don't really know
what it means. Is that a fair statement? <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> 'Enduring,' in my mind, means
open-ended. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> All right -- Section Five
of the draft of the Authorization of the
Use of Military Force reads as follows:
"In this resolution, the term 'associated
persons or forces' means individuals and
organizations fighting for, on behalf of,
or alongside ISIL or any closely-related
successor entity in hostilities against
the United States or its coalition
partners." Ambassador Jeffrey, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">what
does "alongside ISIL" mean?</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> I didn't draft this thing.
<br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Nor did I. <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> Nor did you, but I would
have put that in there if I had been
drafting it, and the reason is, I think
they went back to 2001, of course this is
the authorization we're still using, along
with the 2002 one for this campaign, and
these things morph. For example, we've had
a debate over whether ISIS is really an
element of Al Qaeda; it certainly was when
I knew it as Al Qaeda in Iraq in 2010 to
2012, and these semantic arguments confuse
us and confuse our people on the ground,
in trying to deal with these folks. <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">You'll
know it when you see it</a></b>, if
it's ISIS or it's an ally of ISIS. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> How about the Free Syrian
Army, are they fighting alongside ISIL in
Syria? <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> No, they're not fighting
alongside ISIL, in fact often they're
fighting against ISIL, and ISIL against
them in particular. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> What about Assad, is he
fighting "alongside" or against? <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">It's
kind of hard to tell without a
scorecard, isn't it?</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">It
sure is.</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Yes. What about you, Dr.
Brennan, <b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">can
you tell me what "alongside ISIL"
means?</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>BRENNAN:</b> <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">No,
I really couldn't.</a></b> I think
that, what, you know, it might be. The
9/11 Commission uses the phrase "radical
islamist organizations." I think maybe if
we went to a wording like that, it
includes all those 52 groups that adhere
to this type of ideology, that threaten
the United States. But we're putting
ourselves in boxes and as you said Senator
- Congressman -- I'm trying to understand
what that means, what the limits are ...
who we're dealing with, and <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">it's
very confusing.</a></b> <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Rand? <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> Well, first of all, I believe
that the confusion is probably a function
of the fact that this is an unclassified
document, so it's not going to specify
exactly which groups are considered
associates; that would be for a classified
setting. But second, as I said in the
testimony, the nature of the alliances
within ISIL are changing and are fluid,
and those who are targeting, the military
experts, know exactly who is a derivative
or an associate or an ally of ISIS, at any
given moment. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Why are you so confident
of that? It seems to me that it's a matter
of terminology, not a matter of
ascertainable fact. <br>
<br>
<b>RAND:</b> Based on my public service,
I've seen some of the lawyers, and some of
the methodologies, and . . . . <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Okay. Here's the $64
billion question for you, Ambassador
Jeffrey, and if we have time, for you
others. <b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">If
you can't tell us -- you three experts
can't tell us -- what these words
mean, what does that tell us?</a></b>
Ambassador Jeffrey? <br>
<br>
<b>JEFFREY:</b> That it's very difficult
to be using a tool basically designed to
declare war or something like war on a
nation-state, which has a fixed
definition, against a group that morphs,
that changes its name, that has allies,
and other things. Do we not fight it? We
have to fight it. Are we having a hard
time defining it? You bet. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Brennan? <br>
<br>
<b>BRENNAN:</b> I'd agree with the
ambassador. I think the issue we that need
to be looking at is trying to broaden
terminology and understand that it is a
tenet, or organizations and groups that
adhere to this ideology, and make it broad
enough that if one pops up in a different
country that is doing the same thing, that
is a sister of this organization, the
President has the authority to act. <br>
<br>
<b>GRAYSON:</b> Dr. Brennan, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cl.exct.net/?qs=41eecffb5c32f009e85bbeb001486a418283348879ac3dfdcb5320d62bcb73cc">I
think that you just described a blank
check, which I'm not willing to give
to the President or anybody else.</a></b>
But thank you for your time... <br>
<br>
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