<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_2970" dir="ltr"><span>John Maynard Keynes:</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3037" dir="ltr"><span></span> </div><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3029"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3028" face="Segoe UI" size="3"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3027" face="Segoe UI" size="3"><div align="LEFT" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3038">When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudomoral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money motive at its true value. The love of money as a possession – as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life – will be recognized for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal, semipathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists on mental disease. All kinds of social customs and economic practices, affecting the distribution of wealth and of economic rewards and penalties, which we now maintain at all costs, however distasteful and unjust they may be in themselves, because they are tremendously useful in promoting accumulation of capital, we shall then be free, at last, to discard.</div></font><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_3882" dir="ltr"> </div></font><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_4090" dir="ltr"> </div></span><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426609764260_4089" dir="ltr"> </div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 11:02 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv3970627191"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yiv3970627191yui_3_16_0_1_1426607202628_6727" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv3970627191yui_3_16_0_1_1426607202628_7584">I once had an argument with my sister about whether Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky" was meant as satire. I argued no, but I fear I was wrong in this rare instance.</span></div> <br clear="none"><div class="yiv3970627191qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv3970627191yqt4727576905" id="yiv3970627191yqt69208"><div class="yiv3970627191yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 10:55 AM, E. W. Johnson <ewj@pigsqq.org> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv3970627191y_msg_container"><div id="yiv3970627191"><div>
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<div class="yiv3970627191moz-cite-prefix">On 03/17/2015 09:40 PM, David Green
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><span id="yiv3970627191yui_3_16_0_1_1426599169278_7415">The only
way .... for the rest of us .... is to change society... at a
fundamental and structural level...</span></blockquote>
<br clear="none">
I think this is what Ibn Khaldur says happens, and must happen. The
social contract breaks down as the 1%ers get more<br clear="none">
and more control and finally the system collapses. Of course this
is feared but is actually the only way out.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The blue screen of death means that your pissy windoze system has
finally gotten so corrupt that it can't function.<br clear="none">
You might be able to patch your way back in somehow, but generally a
new operating system restoration i snecessated.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Boyd writes:<br clear="none">
<blockquote> According to Gödel we cannot— in general—determine
the consistency, hence the character or nature, of an abstract
system within itself. According to Heisenberg and the Second Law
of Thermodynamics any attempt to do so in the real world will
expose uncertainty and generate disorder. Taken together, these
three notions support the idea that any inward-oriented and
continued effort to improve the match-up of concept with observed
reality will only increase the degree of mismatch. Naturally, in
this environment, uncertainty and disorder will increase as
previously indicated by the Heisenberg Indeterminacy Principle and
the Second Law of Thermodynamics, respectively. Put another way,
we can expect unexplained and disturbing ambiguities,
uncertainties, anomalies, or apparent inconsistencies to emerge
more and more often. Furthermore, unless some kind of relief is
available, we can expect confusion to increase until disorder
approaches chaos— death<br clear="none">
</blockquote>
Chuy al-Ka-Seltzer really ain't all that much different from the
present bunch. Even if the people are able<br clear="none">
to evict Rahm-bo, the system will continue on without him. The same
limits of allowable debate will be imposed<br clear="none">
and pretty soon ya get back to square #1.<br clear="none">
<blockquote>Fortunately, there is a way out. Remember, as previously
shown, we can forge a new concept by applying the destructive
deduction and creative induction mental operations. Also,
remember, in order to perform these dialectic mental operations we
must first shatter the rigid conceptual pattern, or patterns,
firmly established in our mind. (This should not be too difficult
since the rising confusion and disorder is already helping us to
undermine any patterns). Next, we must find some common qualities,
attributes, or operations to link isolated facts, perceptions,
ideas, impressions, interactions, observations, etc. together as
possible concepts to represent the real world. Finally, we must
repeat this unstructuring and restructuring until we develop a
concept that begins to match-up with reality. By doing this—in
accordance with Gödel, Heisenberg and the Second Law of
Thermodynamics—we find that the uncertainty and disorder generated
by an inward-oriented system talking to itself can be offset by
going outside and creating a new system. Simply stated,
uncertainty and related disorder can be diminished by the direct
artifice of creating a higher and broader more general concept to
represent reality.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
However, once again, when we begin to turn inward and use the new
concept—within its own pattern of ideas and interactions—to
produce a finer grain match with observed reality we note that the
new concept and its match-up with observed reality begins to
self-destruct just as before. Accordingly, the dialectic cycle of
destruction and creation begins to repeat itself once again. In
other words, as suggested by Gödel's Proof of Incompleteness, we
imply that the process of Structure, Unstructure, Restructure,
Unstructure, Restructure is repeated endlessly in moving to higher
and broader levels of elaboration. In this unfolding drama, the
alternating cycle of entropy increase toward more and more
disorder and the entropy decrease toward more and more order
appears to be one part of a control mechanism that literally seems
to drive and regulate this alternating cycle of destruction and
creation toward higher and broader levels of elaboration. Now, in
relating this deductive/inductive activity to the basic goal
discussed in the beginning, I believe we have uncovered a
Dialectic Engine that permits the construction of decision models
needed by individuals and societies for determining and monitoring
actions in an effort to improve their capacity for independent
action.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Furthermore, since this engine is directed toward satisfying this
basic aim or goal, it follows that the goal seeking effort itself
appears to be the other side of a control mechanism that seemsalso
to drive and regulate the alternating cycle of destruction and
creation toward higher and broader levels of elaboration. In this
context, when acting within a rigid or essentially a closed
system, the goal seeking effort of individuals and societies to
improve their capacity for independent action tends to produce
disorder towards randomness and death. On the other hand, as
already shown, the increasing disorder generated by the increasing
mismatch of the system concept with observed reality opens or
unstructures the system. As the unstructuring or, as we'll call
it, the destructive deduction unfolds it shifts toward a creative
induction to stop the trend toward disorder and chaos to satisfy a
goal-oriented need for increased order.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Paradoxically, then, an entropy increase permits both the
destruction or unstructuring of a closed system and the creation
of a new system to nullify the march toward randomness and death.
Taken together, the entropy notion associated with the Second Law
of Thermodynamics and the basic goal of individuals and societies
seem to work in dialectic harmony driving and regulating the
destructive/creative, or deductive/inductive, action—that we have
described herein as a dialectic engine. The result is a changing
and expanding universe of mental concepts matched to a changing
and expanding universe of observed reality. As indicated earlier,
these mental concepts are employed as decision models by
individuals and societies for determining and monitoring actions
needed to cope with their environment—or to improve their capacity
for independent action.<br clear="none">
(Destruction & Creation, John Boyd)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</blockquote>
Ibn Khaldun seems to be saying about the same thing... that a
genuinely new world order can be formed on the ashes and rubble of
the old one, as individuals recognize that their might be the need
for a social contract, and everybody gets a 2nd chance, except for
those guys.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Norman Greenbaum, the "Spirit in the Sky" guy, imagined that Chicago
would be destroyed by a giant marauding aubergine descending<br clear="none">
from outer space. Probably more realistic if he'd thought of a
pickle, probably a good kosher dill.<div class="yiv3970627191yqt3679084012" id="yiv3970627191yqtfd72891"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="yqt4727576905" id="yqt86655">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Peace-discuss mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br clear="none"><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>