<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>I would only wish for a genuine ideological battle rather than the Zionist-like avoidance and innuendo that has characterized the repressive forces in this discussion.</span></div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:45 AM, C. G. Estabrook <carl@newsfromneptune.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv1952456561"><div>James—<div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561">(1) Did you note where that vicious “two year old” slur originated…?</div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561">(2) What do you make of the determinations BLM seem to have made (and on whose behalf) at the NetRoots Nation?</div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><<a class="yiv1952456561" href="http://www.blackagendareport.com/netroots-nation-confrontation" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.blackagendareport.com/netroots-nation-confrontation</a>></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561">Regards, Carl</div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561yqt7981401144" id="yiv1952456561yqt68171"><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><div><blockquote class="yiv1952456561" type="cite"><div class="yiv1952456561">On Jul 26, 2015, at 10:15 AM, James Kilgore <<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:jjincu@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jjincu@gmail.com">jjincu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv1952456561Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr">I don't want to get immersed in this ideological battle but I do have two things to say:<div class="yiv1952456561">1. It is totally offensive and disrespectful to refer to anyone as a "two year old" and engage in other personal slander. This is precisely the kinds of vitriol we hear directed at those fighting for liberation. Certainly we can keep the discussion on the issues and keep away from petty personal attacks. As someone who has been the target of such attacks from the mainstream media, I am particularly irate at these kinds of comments from people representing a Left politics. </div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561">2. You have no right to state who has to be accountable to Black Lives Matter. That is for BLM to determine. </div><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561">In solidarity,</div><div class="yiv1952456561">James</div></div><div class="yiv1952456561gmail_extra"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="all"><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561gmail_signature"><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr">James Kilgore<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">Research Scholar<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">Center for African Studies<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div></div></div>
<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><div class="yiv1952456561gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:59 AM, David Green via Discuss-CommunityCourtwatch <span class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net">discuss-communitycourtwatch@lists.chambana.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv1952456561gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561" style='font-family: garamond, "new york", times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561" style='font-family: garamond, "new york", times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561">Astrid, I've never known you to engage in any extended coherent discussion of anything in good faith. Perhaps you see the entire world as a 2-year-old.</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561">But of course I'm willing to publicly debate you about Israel, SB 1761, etc.</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561">Yes, the situations in South Africa and Israel/Palestine are somewhat different. The racist nature of SA was well understood; yet, even so, the US supported it, and Israel developed nuclear weapons with it and provided it with arms to support its murderous onslaughts against Angola and Mozambique in the 1980s.</span></div><span class="yiv1952456561"></span></div><div class="yiv1952456561" style='font-family: garamond, "new york", times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" style='font-family: garamond, "new york", times, serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561">Israel is equally and in many ways more perversely racist in its institutional practices, but for some time has been much more central as a strategic asset to the US. It's on this basis that the American people, and Jews in particular, are supposed to exalt Israel's alleged virtues. Among those, of course, are an apartheid system in the occupied territories, a genocidal siege on Gaza with regular massacres, a thriving arms industry, and a body of propaganda that rivals Nazi Germany for its inventiveness (which is not to gainsay US propaganda).</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><span class="yiv1952456561">This is not even to mention the religious fanaticism that has been stoked by illegal Jewish settlement, and the moral desiccation of the Jewish community in our own country (and community).</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561">Illinois legislators were asked to except being disciplined by the Israel Lobby; they were asked to assure the public and the powers that be that there would not be a hint of dissent to the Lobby's mafia-like hold on the governmental discourse in our state regarding Israel's crimes (and our own). This is partly, of course, related to the repressive measures against Steven Salaita. </span></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561">These goals were achieved in a secretive, stealthy, and undemocratic manner in Springfield. Nevertheless, Ammons and Bennett are perfectly well aware of the import of their actions. And Carol's explanation to the Prairie Greens meeting a couple of weeks ago was utterly disingenuous.</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561">These are serious issues, which of course have to be avoided by those who engage in despicable (and, ironically, childish) personal attacks.</span></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561"></span><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv1952456561">David Green</span></div> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv1952456561"> <div class="yiv1952456561" style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div class="yiv1952456561" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561" dir="ltr"> <font class="yiv1952456561" face="Arial" size="2"> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:06 PM, Astrid Berkson via Peace-discuss <<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"> </font> </div> <blockquote class="yiv1952456561" style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"> <div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561">
the situations are entirely different, but no one has the sheer
endurance to continue an a discussion with you when you simply
repeat yourself ad infinitum. One thing i learned as a mother is
never to engage in a contest of wills with a two year old because he
has nothing better to do.
<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
<div class="yiv1952456561">On 7/25/2015 5:26 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook'
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a> [sf-core] wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv1952456561" type="cite"> <span class="yiv1952456561"> </span>
<div class="yiv1952456561">
<div class="yiv1952456561">
<div class="yiv1952456561">
<div class="yiv1952456561">I take your failure to answer to be a recognition that
our representatives should vote against apartheid, in
South Africa and Israel.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
The legal maxim is, ‘If the facts are for you, argue the
facts; if the law is for you, argue the law; if neither,
attack opposing counsel.'<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> On Jul 25, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Gregg Gordon
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"><ggregg79@yahoo.com></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Not surprisingly you're missing the point. The point
has nothing to do with South Africa, or even Israel. The
point is you're a -- well, pompous ass is accurate enough,
but too cliched. Donald Trump comes to mind as an apt
comparison, except some people take him seriously, so I
guess I'm at a loss. Nevertheless, that your missives are
uniformly hostile and boorish, I can tolerate. Sometimes
they even amuse me for their total lack of judgment and
sense of scale, much the way Trump does. What does not
amuse me is they are counterproductive to moving toward
the better world everyone on these lists wants to see. So
I wish you'd shut up, but I know you won't.<span class="yiv1952456561"><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 12:45 PM, C. G. Estabrook
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com"><carl@newsfromneptune.com></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Sorry. I meant to ask, What did you think of South
African apartheid?<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> If the South African government had engineered a vote
in its favor in the Illinois legislature a generation ago,
what do you think your representatives should have done?<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> The parallel isn’t exact: Israeli apartheid in the
Occupied Territories is worse than South African apartheid
ever was.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> —CGE<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Carl G. Estabrook
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Have you score on South African apartheid?<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Sent from my iPhone<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none"></span><div class="yiv1952456561"><div class="yiv1952456561h5">
> On Jul 25, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Gregg Gordon via
Peace-discuss <a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a>
wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> I agree with Mr. Kay. Thanks for speaking up.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Gregg Gordon<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> On Friday, July 24, 2015 10:40 PM, C. G. Estabrook
via Peace <a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Would you say the same if they’d failed to vote
against apartheid in South Africa?<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> (BTW, I haven’t done a radio program in years: are
you sure you’re listening to others’ points of view?)<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> Regards, CGE<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Bruce KAY
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:bruce.kay@homemail.com.au" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bruce.kay@homemail.com.au"><bruce.kay@homemail.com.au></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Mr Estabrook,<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> You are a painfully single-issue twat. You have
zero political nous. You fail to understand that Scott
Bennett and Carol Ammons are good representatives of
Champaign Urbana despite that they are not Green Party
members and despite that they do not always agree with you
sir, You show no tolerance of the compromises Carol and
Scott are forced to make as working politicians attempting
to achieve the policies they perceive as most important
for our C-U constituency. You fail to understand, let
alone acknowledge the cut and thrust of state politics.
You try to bask in your former glory as a past candidate,
without ever grasping the real reason why you never got
elected. Because you are uncompromising. You pontificate
on your radio program with obnoxious opinions,
consistently displaying your inability to listen to
others’ points of view.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> For the past few weeks I have desisted from
commenting on your tirade of harassment of Carol Ammons
and Scott Bennett. But you are so one-eyed that your
opinions amount to harassment.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> I too favor the Green Party, and support Jill
Stein for President. But I don’t subscribe to your brand
of hateful chauvinist aggression<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Please Mr C G Estabrook, pull your head in.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Nobody wants to be harangued by your diatribe of
hatred. <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Bruce<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:bruce.kay@homemail.com.au" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bruce.kay@homemail.com.au">bruce.kay@homemail.com.au</a><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <a class="yiv1952456561" href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">+1 217 419 9140</a> (in the USA)<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <a class="yiv1952456561" href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">+61 412 213 689</a> (in Australia)<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Home address: 96 Murranji Street Hawker ACT
Australia 2614<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> Address in USA: 4018 N. Lincoln Avenue Champaign
ILL USA 61822<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> _________________________________<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 20:34, C. G. Estabrook
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com"><carl@newsfromneptune.com></a> wrote:<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>>
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/new-illinois-law-does-not-make-bds-illegal" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/new-illinois-law-does-not-make-bds-illegal</a><br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> The self-styled liberals from C-U, state
senator Scott Bennett and state representative Carol
Ammons, refused to vote against this bill, promoted by the
government of Israel. The bill supports Israeli apartheid:
they would not have refused to vote against a bill
supporting South African apartheid a generation ago.<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>>> —CGE<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
>> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
> <br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
<br class="yiv1952456561" clear="none">
</div></div></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1952456561" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); min-height: 0px;">__._,_.___</div>
<div class="yiv1952456561" style="clear: both;"> </div>
<div class="yiv1952456561" style="margin-top: 10px;">
<hr class="yiv1952456561" style="border-width: 0px; color: rgb(227, 227, 227); min-height: 2px; background-color: rgb(227, 227, 227);"> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook"
<a class="yiv1952456561" href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com"><carl@newsfromneptune.com></a>
<hr class="yiv1952456561" style="border-width: 0px; color: rgb(227, 227, 227); min-height: 2px; background-color: rgb(227, 227, 227);"> </div>
<div class="yiv1952456561" style="clear: both;"> </div>
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