<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5219" dir="ltr">Bob, of course I would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he had been nominated. Jill Stein would have probably voted for him. It wasn't the Green Party that defeated him in the primary/convention process. It was the DNC.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5987" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5771" dir="ltr">I was never cynical or critical about Bernie; I was just skeptical that the DNC and media would allow him to succeed, not exactly a tough call.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5220" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5525" dir="ltr">So which one of the following is the DNC under Ellison going to support?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5221" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5222" dir="ltr">Ending American imperial projects</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5526" dir="ltr">Single payer health care</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5425" dir="ltr">Reform the Federal Reserve into a public bank operating in the public interest</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5424" dir="ltr">Annual Guaranteed Income</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5423" dir="ltr">Full employment/job guarantee</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5429" dir="ltr">Elimination of student debt and free higher education</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_6078" dir="ltr">Green jobs and a Green New Deal, or reasonable facsimile thereof</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479760882559_5422" dir="ltr"><br></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, November 21, 2016 9:22 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman@justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:<br></font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv4194028089"><div><div dir="ltr">David, I don't think that the framework that you're proposing as the basis of progress is useful. What I hear you saying is that first I must try to convince everyone to have my worldview, including my view that Democratic Party reform efforts are useful. Once I've successfully completed that essentially ideological task, then I may be permitted to propose particular reformist projects. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>I don't think that's how the world works. I think that the way the world works is that I don't need the permission of the ultra-left to propose reformist projects. Instead, the way the world works is that I just propose whatever reformist project I want, and then people support the project or don't support the project, according to whether they like the idea of the project or not. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>And this is a sensible framework, because a key determinant of whether a project is useful or not is how many people support it. You can go off by yourself and come up with a very beautiful strategy. You can convince yourself that if only everyone would do X, the system would collapse and it would be all unicorns and ponies. But if you can't get people to do X, it doesn't matter. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Now, there's considerable evidence that as a national project, the Keith Ellison => DNC thing is a going proposition. It's supported by Bernie Sanders/Our Revolution, which generated hundreds of thousands of signatures on a petition. It's supported by CWA and National Nurses United, the two most important labor unions that backed Bernie in the primary. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Given that this is what is happening nationally, it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do locally. We have a bunch of people in the local Democratic Party who supported Bernie in the primary. The vote in Champaign County was two to one Bernie over Hillary. So it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do here. Are we building a thing nationally. Is the Sanders-Warren-Ellison thing a thing. One thing that makes a thing a thing is whether you have to start over from scratch each time. When we started the Bernie thing, the Green Party people and the ultra-left attacked us, just like they are attacking us on the Ellison thing now. So one of the questions going forward is can we get through the phase of being attacked by the Green Party/ultra-left faster, so we can move on to other things, instead of having to fight this battle each time we propose a new idea. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>One of the reasons I like doing petitions at MoveOn is that the cost of participation is very low. So, you can test ideas for support without asking people to commit to a lot, which allows you to test more ideas. Like, if I help organize a demonstration that's two hours away and ask people to come, that's a high bar for participation. I'm asking people to give up six hours of their lives. Most people will set a high bar for that, most of the time. If people don't agree to come, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't support the cause. It might just mean that the participation bar was too high for them. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>But signing and sharing a petition at MoveOn - that takes you five seconds. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>@ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair</div><div><a href="http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div class="yiv4194028089gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv4194028089gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;">(202) 448-2898 x1</span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv4194028089gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4194028089gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv4194028089yqt3147768139" id="yiv4194028089yqt71861"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><div id="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479737334785_9055">Bob, what makes you think that an effort to "reform" the Democratic Party can be successful, given the corporate nature of that party?</div> <div class="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div class="yiv4194028089h5"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, November 21, 2016 7:53 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> </div></div><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;"> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308y_msg_container"><div><div class="yiv4194028089h5"><div id="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308yiv7939885096"><div dir="ltr"><div>As of this morning, fifty-one signers. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><a href="http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://petitions.moveon.org/ sign/champaigncodems-back?r_ by=1135580</a><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>If you support Jill Stein and the Green Party, go stand by Carl Estabrook. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>If you support Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Keith Ellison, come stand by me. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>===</div><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv4194028089m_-2996692598290261308yiv7939885096gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(202) 448-2898 x1</a></span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
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