<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479700313847_4122" dir="ltr">But seriously, if Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Keith Ellison have a roadmap for turning the Democratic Party into a populist/labor/socialist party, based on small contributions from millions (like the Sanders campaign), then let's hear it. And if they're serious about being anti-imperialist, then let's hear that too. If they want to use the word "revolution" to describe their ambitions, let them put some real meat on it and present it to the waiting world. What's with all the insider jockeying in the DNC? Tell us what you stand for!</div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, November 20, 2016 9:42 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net> wrote:<br></font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv9049616327"><div><div dir="ltr">Carl and his amen gang of Green Party thugs haven't yet made a <i>prima facie</i> case for why they should be talking about this at all, when it has nothing to do with them. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>If Carl sued me in court for not keeping up the grounds of my house and thereby reducing the property values in my neighborhood, every judge would throw out the case. Carl does not live in my neighborhood. He has no standing to sue. What goes on in my neighborhood has nothing to do with him. My neighbors haven't elected him or retained his services to represent their interests. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;">(202) 448-2898 x1</span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:31 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv9049616327yqt2934331777" id="yiv9049616327yqt40824"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;">Have you been into the cooking sherry tonight, Bob?<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ease up: “pro-Nazi” is not so inventive as “Green Party Death Cult.”</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>You’re losing focus. </div><div><div class="yiv9049616327h5"><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 20, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">What does this have to do with you, Carl? Why would anyone care about your pro-Nazi opinion? <div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=AaxRMYGO2phVigP8Il2n7Xc0VPxBHLo4mwnBskas6s4&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(202) 448-2898 x1</a></span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:08 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;">“Green Party Death Cult”?! Are you projecting Clinton’s (and Ellison’s) no-fly zones?<div><br clear="none"></div><div>But don’t worry; I think more and more people will indeed leave the Democratic Party alone...<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Those who want to know what “the Sanders-Warren wing” of the Democratic Party is actually like, should consult </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>"Bernie and the Sandernistas: Field Notes from a Failed Revolution" (2016) by Jeffrey St. Clair.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>(I’ll supply a copy to members of this list who ask). —CGE</div><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115h5"><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 20, 2016, at 8:28 PM, Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Why are the views of the Green Party Death Cult relevant to the projects of the Sanders-Warren wing of the Democratic Party inside the Democratic Party?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Go have a seance with Jill Stein and leave us alone. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=y_Dh0YXrmQRX0K91AOWL5f1Fmob1MP2vo9LqpAsqpdQ&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(202) 448-2898 x1</a></span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 8:16 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;">The idea that the three "serious candidates" to lead [sic] the DNC are “two corporate lobbyists” and a person "whose primary mission is make self-described liberals and leftists comfortable supporting imperial wars” is an indication of the terminal lack of political seriousness in the Democratic party - so painfully on display in the recent election. Écrasez l’infâme.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ellison’s delicts have been clear all along, as David Swanson points out: <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.counterpunch.org_2016_11_17_the-2Dskeletons-2Din-2Dkeith-2Dellisons-2Ddisplay-2Dcase_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=ACpJVo_3gQKNLFGYPFW8Og19TjY-f9V0HH2XDiQxkCE&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.counterpunch.org/2 016/11/17/the-skeletons-in-kei th-ellisons-display-case/</a>>.<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>—CGE</div><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571h5"><div><br clear="none"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 20, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">I like Glen Ford as an individual human being. He's had me on his radio show. He's a very nice, affable guy.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>But as an authority on the topic at hand - and this piece is from three years ago - Glen Ford is not credible. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Anyone who thinks that there's not a dime's worth of difference between Ellison and McCain on war and peace is not a serious person. It's a free country. People can say whatever they want. You can be a Truther, a Birther, an anti-vaxxer. But, given that people have other things to do with their lives, people who are serious shouldn't waste time with such things. And, of course, people who support the Green Party are not meaningful authority on the affairs of progressive Democrats. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Here are the three serious candidates. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__theintercept.com_2016_11_15_race-2Dfor-2Dnext-2Ddnc-2Dchair-2Dis-2Dbetween-2Damericas-2Dfirst-2Dmuslim-2Dcongressman-2Dand-2Dtwo-2Dcorporate-2Dlobbyists_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=QaMQFOBtMzKOuPEhVI-FaYAXAgrbQlGlTwFeUeWAoYw&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://theintercept.com/2016/ 11/15/race-for-next-dnc-chair- is-between-americas-first-musl im-congressman-and-two-corpora te-lobbyists/</a><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=y_Dh0YXrmQRX0K91AOWL5f1Fmob1MP2vo9LqpAsqpdQ&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(202) 448-2898 x1</a></span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 2:58 PM, C. G. Estabrook <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:carl@newsfromneptune.com">carl@newsfromneptune.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv9049616327gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;">“Ellison is part of the pro-war Left, whose primary mission is make self-described liberals and leftists comfortable supporting imperial wars.”<div><br clear="none"></div><div><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blackagendareport.com_content_rep-2Dkeith-2Dellison-2Dpersonification-2Dphony-2Dpro-2Dwar-2D-25E2-2580-259Cprogressive-25E2-2580-259D&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=EdAmnVQov_4aUtfXfgnL3k1-BJpo-S2-kYbCvStvf5s&s=EIUKlAYzLzRoi2Sz9_5-CRVg04I-6N3DUwl1PoLhihc&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.blackagendareport.c om/content/rep-keith-ellison-p ersonification-phony-pro-war-% E2%80%9Cprogressive%E2%80%9D</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>—CGE</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171h5"><div>On Nov 20, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171m_-7150399306290937187Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171h5"><div dir="ltr"><div>There is a central committee meeting on November 30. We'll be asking them to pass a resolution in support of Keith Ellison's candidacy to lead the DNC.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Here's our petition at MoveOn:</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>@ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair<br clear="none"></div><div><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__petitions.moveon.org_sign_champaigncodems-2Dback-3Fr-5Fby-3D1135580&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ldAG6OBO8q4pxnelPFN8Fic5NhIlw3sy-8VE3aACTWY&s=weoxkRkaz0gRR-g7_Ka1nZIn_Ne3N3R6AqR8LNqENAo&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://petitions.moveon.org/si gn/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1 135580</a><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>===</div><br clear="all"><div><div class="yiv9049616327m_-3158279576595551115m_7421831104834034571m_-20753158715806171m_-7150399306290937187gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Robert Naiman<br clear="none">Policy Director<br clear="none">Just Foreign Policy<br clear="none"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ldAG6OBO8q4pxnelPFN8Fic5NhIlw3sy-8VE3aACTWY&s=hsuwGbaPcZQKKiXAikyH78K0FAuEqheMZSITRt7NhX4&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br clear="none"><div><span style="text-align:left;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(202) 448-2898 x1</a></span><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div>
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