<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>></span> wrote:</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Belden—<div><br></div><div>Certainly it’s right to ‘criticize both sides.’ I assume you would have done so on September 1, 1939, as well.</div><div><br></div><div>(Those who are tempted not to, should see Nicholson Baker’s “Human Smoke.”)</div><div><br></div><div>But we’re citizens of only one side and (presumably) can affect what that side does: the war in Syria exists because Obama armed jihadists.</div><div><br></div><div>Surely we should be calling (as AWARE does) for the withdrawal of all US troops, weapons, and bases from MENA. Do you agree? </div><div><br></div><div>The poets often get there first:</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately they're never the decision-makers. :-(</div><div><br></div><div>Since there's no attribution, I presume this is your own composition, Carl? It's quite excellent!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div>"...As the clever hopes expire<br>Of a low dishonest decade<br>Waves of anger and fear<br>Circulate over the bright <br>And darkened lands of the earth,<br>Obsessing our private lives....<br><br>"I and the public know<br>What all schoolchildren learn,<br>Those to whom evil is done<br>Do evil in return. <br><br>"Exiled Thucydides knew<br>All that a speech can say<br>About Democracy,<br>And what dictators do,<br>The elderly rubbish they talk<br>To an apathetic grave;<br>Analysed all in his book,<br>The enlightenment driven away,<br>The habit-forming pain,<br>Mismanagement and grief:<br>We must suffer them all again.<br><br>"Into this neutral air<br>Where blind skyscrapers use<br>Their full height to proclaim<br>The strength of Collective Man,<br>Each language pours its vain<br>Competitive excuse:<br>But who can live for long<br>In an euphoric dream;<br>Out of the mirror they stare,<br>Imperialism’s face<br>And the international wrong...<br><br>"All I have is a voice<br>To undo the folded lie,<br>The romantic lie in the brain<br>Of the sensual man-in-the-street<br>And the lie of Authority<br>Whose buildings grope the sky:<br>There is no such thing as the State<br>And no one exists alone;<br>Hunger allows no choice<br>To the citizen or the police;<br>We must love one another or die…”<div><br></div><div>Regards, Carl</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Fields, A Belden <<a href="mailto:a-fields@illinois.edu" target="_blank">a-fields@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
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<div>I criticize both sides Mort.<br>
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On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Brussel, Morton K <<a href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" target="_blank">brussel@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>What do you know about the situation in Aleppo, Belden? I suggest you look elsewhere than to the NYT and other main stream media. Perhaps even RN, horror of horrors, or
<a href="http://antiwar.com/" target="_blank">Antiwar.com</a>, etc. .
<div>Yes the Russians have interests in not having radical Islamists taking over Syria, and were called in by the only legitimate government there, even if you don’t approve of it. Meanwhile the USA, Saudi Arabia, and friends, Israel too, have been
supplying weapons, intelligence(?) and funds to the so-called rebels, many/most not even Syrians—instigating the conflict there. Regime change has long been on the table by the U.S. government for Syria, part of our hegemonic outlook. </div>
<div>Your criticism is perverse. <br>
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<div>On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:30 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' <a href="mailto:a-fields@illinois.edu" target="_blank">
a-fields@illinois.edu</a> [sf-core] <<a href="mailto:sf-core-noreply@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">sf-core-noreply@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:</div>
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Karl,<br style="line-height:1.22em">
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I find it obscene when you say that the Russian air force was in Syria "legally," justifying the hellish nightmare that it unleashed upon the people of Aleppo. This was a war crime of incredible magnitude. Your " anti-war" posture is pure hypocrisy. If other
in AWARE share your view, the name should be changed. You are neither anti-war nor anti-racist. Drop the mask.<br style="line-height:1.22em">
Belden<br style="line-height:1.22em">
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<div id="m_8658693395875089490divRpF204263" style="line-height:1.22em;direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2" style="line-height:1.22em"><b style="line-height:1.22em">From:</b><span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace [<a href="mailto:peace-bounces@lists.chambana.net" style="line-height:1.22em" target="_blank">peace-bounces@lists.chambana.<wbr>net</a>]
on behalf of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace [<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" style="line-height:1.22em" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>]<br style="line-height:1.22em">
<b style="line-height:1.22em">Sent:</b><span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:48 AM<br style="line-height:1.22em">
<b style="line-height:1.22em">To:</b><span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span>Debra Schrishuhn<br style="line-height:1.22em">
<b style="line-height:1.22em">Cc:</b><span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace;<span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net" style="line-height:1.22em" target="_blank">prairiegreens@lists.<wbr>chambana.net</a>;
Occupy CU<br style="line-height:1.22em">
<b style="line-height:1.22em">Subject:</b><span class="m_8658693395875089490Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria<br style="line-height:1.22em">
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.</div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in
Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.</div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. </div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">—CGE</div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <<a href="mailto:deb.pdamerica@gmail.com" style="line-height:1.22em" target="_blank">deb.pdamerica@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings
don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention
-- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?</div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. </div>
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<div style="line-height:1.22em">Debra</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>