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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>“ I find it breathtaking that protecting refugees is something that has to be argued for on this list, rather than being taken as a premise. “<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>No one Bob, on this list has stated that protecting refugees is debatable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>What has been stated is opposition to the neo-liberal / identity politics position that all too many so called “ progressives “ advocate, that exploitation of undocumented immigrants and indentured servants of the Hb1 visa program and the subsequent reduction of wages and working conditions for ALL Working people is acceptable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Is that what you are advocating ? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I really want to know !<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>David Johnson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2017 5:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> David Green<br><b>Cc:</b> Peace-discuss List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Why I won’t be marching in the July 4th parade<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>Immigration is a big show and there's more than one thing in play. It's a strange sort of peace movement that wouldn't stand up for protecting refugees, a basic U.S. government obligation under international law and under U.S. law. A key narrative of the Sanctuary Movement for undocumented Salvadoran and Guatemalan refugees in the 1980s was that the Reagan Administration wasn't complying with U.S. international law obligations on protecting refugees in general and the Refugee Act of 1980 in particular. I find it breathtaking that protecting refugees is something that has to be argued for on this list, rather than being taken as a premise. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>(202) 448-2898 x1<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>To Stop Cholera & Famine, Stop Refueling Saudi Warplanes Bombing Yemen<br><a href="https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/house-back-un-call-for?r_by=1135580" target="_blank">https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/to-stop-cholera-famine?r_by=1135580</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:justify'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:35 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>But what's not complicated is that the "rules" of immigration have always been worked out by the ruling class in order to disempower the working class. The fact that we have so many highly professional, well-educated, and successful immigrants in our community (and in our country) adds a new twist to this scenario, but these people aren't challenging the rules of the capitalist game, obviously. But they do give the News-Gazette a reason to view them as "model minorities," and we're back to where we started, Horatio Alger 2.0. It's a strange sort of working class movement that alienates and even demonizes most of the working class, both white and black, while identifying itself with the business and professional class, especially those in academia who represent the neoliberal corporate university at its finest. And of course, three years in to the Black Lives Matter movement, not to mention the Ammons tenure, there is no multi-racial class solidarity to be found in the parade procession, to my knowledge.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>DG<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="m_1343345427601267292yahoo_quoted_9693693756"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>On Tue Jul 04 2017 16:24:48 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time), Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="m_1343345427601267292yiv2870972864"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>Trump's Muslim ban is an attack on <i>previously-legal</i> immigration. He blocked people from coming to the U.S. who had valid U.S. visas, including UN- and US- vetted Syrian and Iraqi refugees. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>The question of impacts of illegal Mexican immigration on low-wage American workers is complicated. The question of economic impact of legal Syrian and Iraqi migration on low-wage American workers is not complicated. There's no impact. The scale is far too small. It's tears in the rain. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><a href="tel:(202)%20448-2898" target="_blank">(202) 448-2898 x1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>To Stop Cholera & Famine, Stop Refueling Saudi Warplanes Bombing Yemen<br><a href="https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/house-back-un-call-for?r_by=1135580" target="_blank">https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/to-stop-cholera-famine?r_by=1135580</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="m_1343345427601267292yiv2870972864yqt77580"><div><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>From <<a href="https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity" target="_blank">https://www.jacobinmag.com/ 2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity</a> >:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>...who’s for illegal immigration? As far as I know … the only people who are openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a welfare state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open the borders, because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s<a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=16508148925211743157&hl=en&as_sdt=20005&sciodt=20000" target="_blank"> a good paper</a> you can get off the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs <cite><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Foreign Affairs</span></cite>, and the argument is that illegal immigration is better than legal immigration, because illegal immigration is extremely responsive to market conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of <i>ne plus ultra</i> of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why for years — even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy it’s worked well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk against illegal immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama administration would do the same thing except its hand’s being forced by the Tea Party.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>...Some argue that limiting immigration could help restore the unions and that’s obviously false and I’m certainly not saying that the Tea Party has the diagnosis right. The Tea Party thinks that immigrants are taking away their money. It’s not immigrants who are taking away their money; it’s neoliberalism that’s taking away their money...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>On Jul 4, 2017, at 2:39 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>Was there a count of how many people marched with the Immigration Forum? It seemed like a lot of people. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><br>______________________________ _________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana. net</a><br><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="m_1343345427601267292yqt81062"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:justify'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>