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Exactly, when speaking with those opposed to war, any initial exhilaration I feel at hearing their opposition, is immediately dashed when they assume, its all about Trump and we need to get rid of him, and get a Democrat in power, or a third party candidate,
Bernie.
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<div class="">I control my need to ask, where have you been for over eight years now, by pointing out Bush put us into 2 wars, Obama extended those to now 7. </div>
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<div class="">On Oct 9, 2017, at 07:14, Boyle, Francis A <<a href="mailto:fboyle@illinois.edu" class="">fboyle@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: 'Arial Black', sans-serif;" class="">And I would add that Amy Badman is typical for what passes for most of the American “left” these days—warmongers. Fab.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b class=""><i class=""><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black', sans-serif;" class="">Francis A. Boyle<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b class=""><i class=""><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black', sans-serif;" class="">Champaign, IL 61820 USA<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Boyle, Francis A<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 9, 2017 8:05 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Karen Aram <<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" class="">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Estabrook, Carl G <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" class="">galliher@illinois.edu</a>>; Peace-discuss List <<a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>;
<a href="mailto:prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net" class="">prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net</a>; Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net" class="">peace@anti-war.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Trump's defeat by the political establishment leads to war<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: 'Arial Black', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Ditto for Amy Badman on Syria. Fab.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Francis A. Boyle<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Karen Aram [<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 09, 2017 7:42 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Boyle, Francis A <<a href="mailto:fboyle@illinois.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fboyle@illinois.edu</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Estabrook, Carl G <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">galliher@illinois.edu</a>>; Peace-discuss List <<a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net</a>;
Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">peace@anti-war.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Trump's defeat by the political establishment leads to war<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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I wasn’t aware of Amy’s support for Libyan intervention at the time, but given her take on Syria of recent, I no longer pay attention to DN when it comes to foreign policy. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Trump, also supported intervention in Libya, accusing Gaddafi of murdering thousands. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Its’ time people recognize that anything anyone says when running for office, especially as regards foreign policy, should be ignored. Foreign policy is set in stone, and has been for decades by the various groups who run our government. NSA, CIA, CFR, Pentagon,
State Dept., and the many contractors who profit from war, own the DNC and GOP. The only difference in either party or groups holding power is strategy and tactics, and their only concern is “power”. There is no difference in the goal of perpetual war and
containment of China and Russia. Containment of these two powerful, nuclear armed nations will ultimately lead to WW3.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Only the American people standing up to government through solidarity and civil resistance can bring about change and progress. Many Americans are organizing against the government now, but they aren’t united, and they aren’t focused on those who possess power.
We need total system change. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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On Oct 9, 2017, at 04:56, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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– even “Democracy Now!” reported that...<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Yeah well Amy Badman fully supported Obama’s unconstitutional war against Libya for eight months that killed about 50,000 Muslims/Arabs/Africans of Color, Men, Women and Children, destroyed Libya as a State and turned Libya into Somalia on the Med, along with
her Boy Toy Juan Cole of UMichigan, a reported CIA Asset. Fab.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Peace
[<a href="mailto:peace-bounces@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mailto:peace-bounces@lists.chambana.net</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Carl G. Estabrook via Peace<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 09, 2017 4:48 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Estabrook, Carl G <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">galliher@illinois.edu</span></a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss List <<a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</span></a>>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">prairiegreens@lists.chambana.net</span></a>;
Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">peace@anti-war.net</span></a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Peace] Trump's defeat by the political establishment leads to war</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Trump/Bannon’s America First policy put the interests of the immiserated middle class ahead of those of globalizing corporations. The political establishment (including - but not limited to - the Obama-Clinton administration) couldn’t stand that. So they destroyed
it, to further their long-standing policies to retard the economic development of Eurasia, seen as a threat to the US one-percent’s profits. They’re wiling to kill a lot of people to do that.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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"Americans pushed into pro-war frenzy by elite-controlled MSM & NATO”: <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.rt.com_usa_406059-2Dmsm-2Dnato-2Damericans-2Dwar-2Dsupport_&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=iioab8BLQ6IJxt-3gLhYzf1aAvTbGVgzPJj9W_0ugn0&m=fx941YGuFXhPiboclUgMtQvGyjblE2AW-UmV13K9co4&s=BcnN-XIETCRkksZRkZwTU59kLI4n8ZWM9v--64GXJAc&e=" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">https://www.rt.com/usa/406059-msm-nato-americans-war-support/</span></a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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...the failure of Donald Trump’s America First policy ... Trump has done a pretty horrible job selling his policy. There was a non-interventionist component that he campaigned on, which proved pretty popular, particularly in places like the Rust Belt.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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...these numbers ... started to shift when the election campaign began. They reflect a concerted campaign by the mainstream media and by the national security state, which has unprecedented access and control over mainstream media – particularly CNN and MSNBC
– to bring the American public’s views in line with the elites’ [views] of our interventionist bipartisan foreign policy consensus in Washington. Two years of non-stop red-baiting, Russia hysteria, and fearmongering over North Korea have done the trick, particularly
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...liberals tend to support interventionist policies at higher rates than even Republicans...<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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From 2015 to this summer we saw a 20 percent surge in the number of Americans who would support sending troops to defend South Korea. We also see, for the first time in history, a majority of Americans willing to send US troops to fight and die for Latvia against
Russia, and that is a reflection of their support for NATO.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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Liberals disproportionately support these militaristic policies, which seem to suggest support for a hot war with Russia, and even hot war with China. It would be disastrous if they took place. So why didn’t that take place? Because of the partisan war against
Trump, who has been portrayed as an enemy of NATO – even though he is now as supportive of NATO as ever; as someone who is a Manchurian candidate of Russia, who is controlled by Putin’s nine-dimensional chess and has colluded with Russia. So, Democrats tend
to see Russia in a negative light, and they support interventionist policies.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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But if you also look at CNN and MSNBC versus Fox News, which is the de-facto channel of the Republican Party and Trump, you see non-stop contributors from the national security state – like James Clapper, Michael Hayden, the former CIA director – pushing these
kinds of militaristic policies. So, these are the channels that Democrats watch. Their media, including the Washington Post and the New York Times, has really stepped up the fearmongering and militarism.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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So, you see a total reversal from the Bush period, the Bush era – when Democrats were staunchly against the Iraq war, because it was Bush’s war. And now you see the people that are against guns that are against mass shooting – favoring pointing guns and committing
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In 2014, Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State, wife of the neo-conservative Robert Kagan, said that Americans were ready to fight and die for Latvia. That wasn’t true at the time. Now it is. These attitudes have been manufactured.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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They’ve been partly manufactured by NATO propaganda. We heard at lot – especially on CNN from figures like Jake Tapper, “Deep State Jake,” who almost every show is pushing regime change in one of the non-compliant states. We heard a lot about the Zapad [West]
military exercises, thinking Romania, where Russia was said to have amassed 100,000 troops on NATO borders – even “Democracy Now!” reported that...<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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