<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Stuart—<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My postings to <Peace> that you’ve been suppressing have been "<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT" class="">calls to action relating to anti-war, anti-racism and other AWARE issues” - often links and/or full texts from elsewhere.</font></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You shouldn’t do that, even with posts that don’t fall within that description. But mine usually do. —CGE </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Stuart Levy <<a href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com" class="">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Carl,<br class="">
<br class="">
Here is the announcement that went to each person who joined the
peace-discuss list as of 2006. It hasn't changed since then:<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote class="">Welcome to the <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a> mailing
list! This is<br class="">
an unmoderated mailing list for general discussion of anti-war,<br class="">
anti-racism and other AWARE issues. There is a separate mailing
list<br class="">
(peace) for announcements, calls to action and AWARE meeting
minutes.<br class="">
PLEASE DO NOT CROSSPOST messages to both lists.<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
{followed by details of how to write to the list, find the list
archives, remove yourself, reach the list moderators etc.}<br class="">
<br class="">
And here is the announcement that goes to people joining Peace:<br class="">
<blockquote class="">'peace' is an AWARE mailing list for announcements and
calls to action relating to anti-war, anti-racism and other AWARE
issues. AWARE meeting minutes are also posted to this list. Posts
from non-list-members are moderated to cut down on SPAM. There is
a separate 'peace-discuss' mailing list for general discussion.<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
I think this is pretty much what I've been saying it was. And you
know this perfectly well - it has come up a number of times over the
years.<br class="">
<br class="">
The above are also the policies that I've been describing when we
invite people, typically at the Farmer's Market, to join the
lists. Peace is intended to be low-traffic, aimed at
announcements. Peace-discuss is an often-interesting place for
discussions, articles, and arguments, sometimes including flame
wars. Sometimes interested people will sign up for Peace only,
others for both lists.<br class="">
<br class="">
As to the question of whether policies like these are a good idea:<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">In any case, it’s difficult to see how restricting information and discussion helps the antiwar movement.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
I think there is a pretty plain reason for maintaining this sort of
separation. People come to us (or to a newspaper, or to a facebook
group, or to a church) with some expectation about how their time
will be used. When they signed up, we gave them some indication of
that.<br class="">
<br class="">
When people become members of Sierra Club, for example, they're
invited to supply their e-mail addresses. In return, Sierra Club
promises that their local group won't just send them a bundle of
messages every day. They're promised that they'll get at most two
messages per month, unless they explicitly sign up for mailing lists
which receive more traffic than that (which many do, but many more
don't).<br class="">
<br class="">
If SC didn't make such a promise, they'd quickly lose the patience
of most of their members. Under those circumstances - given the
choice of receiving either lots of messages from anyone who had
something to say, or nothing - most people would insist that they
receive *no* e-mail at all. So SC would lose any way of reaching
them even for the highest priority messages. They don't want that.<br class="">
<br class="">
The collection of Usenet news groups, a sort of distributed anarchic
communication system, worked all this out in the early 1980s for the
same reason. Whether formally moderated or not, each group has a
policy document, adopted when it was created, that says what is
within the scope of that group.<br class="">
<br class="">
I think that's the spirit in which the AWARE e-mail policies were
originally set up.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/18/2017 08:59 AM, C G Estabrook
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:B72311C1-8CF8-4D8F-88C7-56CC1B19F4B4@gmail.com" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">"That understanding of the purposes of each list” is different from their original description. (See below.)
In any case, it’s difficult to see how restricting information and discussion helps the antiwar movement.
—CGE
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">On Oct 17, 2017, at 10:34 PM, stuartnlevy via Peace-discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a> wrote:
Discussion remains open on peace-discuss. Peace is not a list intended for discussions, including articles. That understanding of the purposes of each list did not start with me.
If you are interested in establishing a new open antiwar e-mail list, you are welcome to create one, invite people to it, and run it however you wish. An invitation to join such a list would be entirely appropriate for the Peace list.
-- Stuart
-------- Original message --------
From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a>
Date: 10/17/17 17:33 (GMT-06:00)
To: Peace <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace@anti-war.net"><peace@anti-war.net></a>
Cc: Peace-discuss List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a>
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Censorship at AWARE
AWARE has two email lists <Peace> and <Peace-discuss>. When they were founded, they were described as follows:
“<Peace> is an AWARE mailing list for announcements and calls to action
relating to anti-war, anti-racism and other AWARE issues. AWARE meeting minutes are also
posted to this list.”
“<Peace-discuss> is an unmoderated mailing list for general discussion.”
The lists have different if overlapping lists of subscribers.
Stuart Levy has taken it upon himself to censor my posts to <Peace> on the grounds that the list is only for event announcements. That’s not what the description says, and in any case, AWARE as an organization has never authorized anyone to enforce the different descriptions of the two lists.
It’s difficult to see how censorship of AWARE email lists contributes to the local anti-war movement.
Stuart and I have disagreed about aspects of the antiwar movement in the past. Our most recent disagreement was about antifa - he’s for it; I’m against it. But it would seem far better to discuss these differences than to suppress comments to an AWARE email list.
--CGE
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Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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