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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">For a liberal anti-war group, AWARE has a somewhat embarrassing history on 'what can't be said.' Good liberals in the group have taken some remarkably anti-free speech positions.
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The paramount example occurred more than a dozen years ago, when AWARE's weekly meetings regularly attracted dozens of participants. But a visit to C-U by Barak Obama (then Illinois' junior senator) <span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">and objections from some
AWAREists to this </span><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">mendacious war-apologist and seeming critic</span><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;"> </span>prompted anguished cries from some other AWARE members.<br>
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I wrote at the time that several AWAREists "decided that leafleting Obama’s rally [with antiwar material] had been 'rude' and that the leaflet 'demonized' him. They took the uncomfortable position that AWARE needed to treat black politicians differently from
white politicians." <https://www.counterpunch.org/2005/09/29/illinois-anti-warriors-and-the-attractive-senator/>.
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">The resulting dispute caused a fracture from which AWARE never recovered. It's hard to say that a more complete
</span>discussion<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> of the matter would have been a mistake, as the Obama campaign hoovered up the antiwar movement and produced the first US president to be at war
</span>throughout<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> two presidential terms.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">And it's hard to see how censoring/suppressing discussion on anti-war email lists will help to avoid similar disturbing - and deadly - mistakes. --CGE</span></div>
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<div id="divRpF842814" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net] on behalf of bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 30, 2018 9:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> C G Estabrook; Stuart Levy<br>
<b>Cc:</b> C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] moderator help<br>
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<div dir="auto">It seems your central point has been made and listened to several times over, Carl and Wayne. Some of us agree; some disagree. I vote we skip bringing out the torn & ratty old arguments of censorship, free speech, insults, yada, when it is
clear who seems to have the most free speech in this group. </div>
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<div dir="auto">Your communication skills are many and varied and respected here. As I say constantly, probably <span style="font-size:10pt">98% of Americans want the same things: a good education, job, healthcare, clean air, food, land, water, security. For
any anti-war or pro-Americans movement to succeed, we mustbfocus on our common goals of course. Splitting up constituencies was the ultimate cause of the 60s Civil Rights Movement's downfall. Womyn's rights only got so far, black womyn's rights less far, and
marijuana was criminalized. Etc. </span></div>
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<div dir="auto">Are you ignoring the move to vote on staying on anti-war topics only, having a group meeting to discuss it, or starting a different discussion group? </div>
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<div dir="auto"><i>Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</i></div>
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<div dir="auto">------ Original message------</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>From: </b>C G Estabrook</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Date: </b>Mon, Jul 30, 2018 8:54 AM</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>To: </b>Stuart Levy;</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Cc: </b>E. Wayne Johnson<a href="mailto:;bjornsona@ameritech.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">;bjornsona@ameritech.net</a>;C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss;kmedina67;</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [Peace-discuss] moderator help</div>
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Do you intend to censor posts to the <peace-dscuss> email list, as you do to the <peace> email list, Stuart?
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<div class="">Censorship is a peculiar practice for a liberal, isn’t it?</div>
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<div class="">“If you don’t believe I free speech for views you despise, you don’t believe in it at all.” —Noam Chomsky</div>
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<div class="">On Jul 30, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">Lots of right arguments go unheard, and many wrong ones flourish, or else why would the US still be supporting the bombardment of Yemen?<br class="">
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Look, I signed up for AWARE as an anti-war group. I go with David and Ann and Karen to work the farmer's market twice a month, and to the monthly demonstrations, to express and work for opposition to US participation in wars around the world. I've done
that and other things for many years, as many of you know who have been doing it beside me.<br class="">
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I'm here on this list and others for discussion of opposition to war and what we can do about it.<br class="">
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I didn't sign up to AWARE, and neither did the several people who joined this list just last weekend, to join an anti-abortion (and-oh-by-the-way-never-mind-what-happens-to-the-mothers) group.<br class="">
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Anyone here who wishes to start or join such a group, run a market presence, hold demonstrations, carry on discussions, is welcome to. But not on this list, please.<br class="">
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Stuart<br class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/30/2018 09:38 AM, E. Wayne Johnson via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">If you are right, then the power of your argument should be sufficient<br class="">
to squelch those who oppose your ideas, and you ought not need to appeal to <br class="">
a higher (Levitical) authority for narrowing of the limits of debate.<br class="">
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And when you are wrong, to admit the fault, delete the offending code, and reboot.<br class="">
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bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">Dear Moderator :) What is the agreement for what people are allowed to publish here? I hate to lose subscribers because we go off topic. (Guilty, I know). </div>
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<div dir="auto" class=""><i class="">Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</i></div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">------ Original message------</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">From: </b>C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Date: </b>Sun, Jul 29, 2018 8:57 AM</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">To: </b>kmedina67;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Cc: </b>Peace-discuss;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b>Re: [Peace-discuss] Stop dividing AntiWar</div>
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<div class="">A paraphrase:</div>
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"Until the conditions for Americans in the world (beset by terrorists) change, access to safe drone assassinations needs to be an option, if you value the life of Americans.
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"If you don't value the life of Americans, then criminalize them." <br class="">
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<div class="">On Jul 29, 2018, at 12:59 AM, kmedina67 via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="">Until the conditions for women change, access to safe abortion needs to be an option, if you value the life of the woman. </div>
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<div class="">If you don't value the life of the woman, then criminalize her. </div>
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<div class="" style="font-size:85%; color:#575757">- Karen Medina</div>
<div class="" style="font-size:85%; color:#575757">"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain</div>
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