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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">A lot of issues and arguments disappear
when one can deal in first principles.<br>
<br>
It is a problem in America that there are folks who believe that <br>
2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2. One can write about them in<br>
National Geographic and they might be really good at something<br>
not requiring good math.<br>
<br>
Nazis are bad because they built Volkswagens, limited access high
speed roadways, and rockets.<br>
<br>
Fascists are bad because Pareto, Amaroso, and Gini were evil
Italian economists<br>
and mathematicians to boot.<br>
<br>
White supremacists are bad because it is obvious that non-whites
are better<br>
at many things not just sports.<br>
<br>
If Nazis are bad because of X and Fascists are bad because of Y
and <br>
White supremacists are bad because of Z, then one should talk
about<br>
X, Y, and Z not Nazis, Fascists, etc., if one is really interested
in discouraging<br>
what is bad and promoting what is good.<br>
<br>
First principles is not bipartisan, it is non-partisan<br>
because it transcends partisanism.<br>
<br>
I know, I know... "first principles" is offensive to those<br>
who don't believe in first principles.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Karen Aram wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><font class=""
color="#000000">You won’t get any argument from me, on
that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the
biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war,
poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP,
and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender
inequality, the illusion of "we are better than
that.” </font></blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<font class="" color="#000000">Thats not to say racism,
gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate
concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and
inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of
profit, we will not have any change in these conditions.</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div><font class="" color="#000000">Changing the system
isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail
against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or
neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing
good cop vs. bad cop. </font></div>
<div><font class="" color="#000000"><br class="">
</font></div>
<font class="" color="#000000">It isn’t going to “enlighten”
anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as
the “ left.”</font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson <<a
href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ewj@pigs.ag</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family: Helvetica;
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont
believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression.<br
class="">
They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the
waste of money and human lives it represents.<br class="">
<br class="">
I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the
world than is the KKK. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have
much of an impact.<br class="">
<br class="">
The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the
KKK.<br class="">
If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one
about what<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
the KKK is doing. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool
and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get
people to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us
that the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
Russians hacked the election who are also having a
conniption fit about<br class="">
Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into
the notion<br class="">
that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just
poorly understood.<br class="">
It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis
threatening America?<br class="">
<br class="">
I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and
crab grass.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MWHPR08MB2382E49BD599CD63143A8102A3390@MWHPR08MB2382.namprd08.prod.outlook.com"
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px;
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0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
Carl
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The Nixon Administration ended the draft in
1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration
ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that
in his memoirs. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace
is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration,
you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon,
with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people
weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government
said at that time. The problem was, many did think by
the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at
least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris
Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer
an issue. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">When people have given up hope, they stay
home and don’t vote. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Again, as an organizer and supporter for
McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what
happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave
up.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:bjornsona@ameritech.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">bjornsona@ameritech.net</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin-bottom: 45px;">
<div class="" style="font-size: 10pt;">
<div dir="auto" class="">Appropo some
Americans only protest war when it hits them
in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in
what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole
Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just
off 94 & North Ave. yesterday.
Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in
London, Eng. At least that is what the
cashier said. Complete with a locker wall
interface to Amazon so that people can have
their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole
Foods and pick them up when shopping. </div>
<div dir="auto" class="">It rather did feel
like being at the center of an Empire. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="LGEmailSignatureBox" dir="auto"
class="">
<div dir="auto" font-size:9pt;?="" class=""><i
class="">Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an
AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</i></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="" style="font-size: 10pt;">
<div id="LGEmailHeader" dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">------ Original
message------</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>C
G Estabrook via Peace-discuss<peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
class=""></peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Date:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mon,
Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Karen
Aram;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>peace;Peace
Discuss;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b>Re:
[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist
Demonstration in DC Yesterday</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
The Nixon administration ended the draft in
1973 because of the revolt of the US
expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript
soldiers were no longer reliable.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">By 1969 about 70% of the public
had come to regard the war as “fundamentally
wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely
as a result of the impact of student protest
on general consciousness. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">US business had by 1968 told
President Johnson that the costs of the war
were too high and it needed too be
liquidated. He effectively resigned.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Richard Nixon was the peace
candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’
for ending the war. He was re-elected in
1972 because his Secretary of State
announced, “Peace is at hand.”</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ending US wars in SW Asia today
will not be so easy as ending wars in SE
Asia (which the US essentially won) was
then. Nor will it probably follow a similar
pattern.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And it’s unlikely it will be
done by taking up the Democrats’
disingenuous cry that the elected president
is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and
not mentioning the wars and war
provocations, except incidentally, as this
rally did.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The situation is closer to the
mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to
be built from scratch, and the Democrats
were screaming, “...Let every nation know
... that we shall pay any price, bear any
burden, meet any hardship, support any
friend, oppose any foe to assure the
survival and the success of liberty”! </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Liberty for whom is clearer now.
—CGE</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at
6:55 AM, Karen Aram <<a
href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">Sorry Carl,
your focus on only one
issue is detrimental to
building a movement.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
That is what this is all
about. ANSWER more than
any organization in the US
is focused on war and
foreign policy, but as
most Americans really
don’t care about war,
afterall “we’re not
killing Americans like us”
and you can argue that
point all you want but the
fact is:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">1) The largest
protests against war in
the US pre intervention of
Iraq, was really opposing
Bush policy’s and was
organized by the
Democrats.</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">2) The
protests against just
about everything the past
two years is about Trump,
and organized by the
Democrats.</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">3) The
protests in the 70’s died
when Nixon dropped the
draft. I was there, I was
with the organizers who
managed the largest ever
protest during that time,
the Counter Inaugeral, and
that is precisely why
Nixon eliminated the
draft, after that it was
extremely difficult to get
the numbers.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">4) Only the
“Costs of war” are going
to bring people out into
the streets enmass in D.C.
because of the impact on
individual lives.</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">5) Organizing
against the many horrific
policies being promoted by
the current USG due to our
system of capitalism which
is the cause of all,
including war, takes
strategy and tactics to
educate, organize, and
coordinate. It means
working with others on
issues of concern. Just
talking about it in a
venue that suits us, isn’t
getting us anywhere.</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">On Aug 13,
2018, at 04:39, C G
Estabrook <<a
href="mailto:cgestabrook@gmail.com"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">cgestabrook@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class=""
style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;">But they were
not chanting, “No war!
Bring the troops home!”
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">It’s a
distraction. Fascism
is not the problem. US
war-making is.</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
<div class=""><br
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">On
Aug 13, 2018, at
6:34 AM, Karen
Aram via Peace
<<a
href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class=""
style="word-wrap:
break-word;
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space;
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after-white-space;">
<table
class=""
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0px; color:
rgb(80, 80,
84);
font-family:
Georgia,
Times, 'Times
New Roman',
serif;
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18px;
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rgb(255, 255,
255);"
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="100%" border="0" height="100%">
<tbody
class="">
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<td class=""
style="border-collapse:
collapse;"
valign="top"
align="center">
<table
class=""
style="border-collapse:
collapse;
border-spacing:
0px;
background-color:
rgb(49, 53,
56);
border-bottom-width:
10px;
border-bottom-style:
solid;
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rgb(100, 100,
89);"
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#535a60;" width="100%" border="0">
<tbody
class="">
<tr class="">
<td class=""
style="border-collapse:
collapse;"
valign="top"
align="center">
<table
class="container"
style="border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" width="600" border="0">
<tbody
class="">
<tr class="">
<td class=""
style="border-collapse:
collapse;
padding-bottom:
10px;
padding-top:
10px;
padding-left:
10px;"
width="200">
<a
href="http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=1"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/answercoalition/sites/1/meta_images/original/newANSWERlogo3.png"
alt="ANSWER
Coalition"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"
width="220"
border="0"
height="auto"></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table
class="container"
style="border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; font-size: 14px;
background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242);" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
width="600"
border="0">
<tbody
class="">
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<td
class="body-content"
style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Georgia, Times, serif;
padding: 20px;
font-size:
16px;
line-height:
1.5em;
background-color:
rgb(246, 246,
246);"
bgcolor="#fafafa">
<p class=""
style="margin-bottom:
1em;"><img
src="https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/answercoalition/mailings/2516/attachments/original/dcaug12demo.jpg?1534126286"
alt="15,000
gather against
Nazis and KKK
" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="max-width: 100%; border-width: 10px; display: block; margin: 10px
auto;"
width="500"
height="375"><br
class="">
<br class="">
Dear Karen, </p>
<p class=""
style="margin-bottom:
1em;">Today,
was an amazing
demonstration
of strength
and unity. By
4pm there were
more than
15,000 people
in Lafayette
Park chanting,
“No Nazis, No
KKK, No
Fascist USA”.</p>
<p class=""
style="margin-bottom:
1em;">It was a
remarkable
demonstration
of unity from
so many
communities:
Black, Latino,
Asian, Arab,
white people,
young and old.
All stood
together to
condemn the
Nazis and KKK
who thought
they could
come and rally
in front of
the White
House, because
they believe
they have a
dear friend
who occupies
that
residence. It
was shameful
that the U.S.
government and
police spent
millions of
tax dollars to
act as a
private
security
escort for a
handful of
fascists. The
police
escorted them
on the metro
and provided
police vans to
take them from
the
Washington,
D.C. area back
to Virginia. </p>
<p class=""
style="margin-bottom:
1em;">We will
give a more
detailed
report of what
happened in
the coming
days, but we
wanted to give
a shout out
tonight and a
huge thank you
to everyone
who supported
this effort.
Thousands of
people
volunteered,
mobilized, or
donated to
make this
success
possible.
Everyone
should feel
very proud.
Most
importantly,
we laid the
basis for
taking next
steps in
making this
new movement
even
stronger. <br
class="">
<br class="">
In
solidarity, <br
class="">
All of us at
ANSWER
Coalition <br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=2"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.answercoalition.org/</a><br
class="">
</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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list<br class="">
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class=""
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class="">
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href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace"
class=""
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class="">
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</blockquote>
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