<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Are you saying that "criticizing and attempting to discourage, those who take action on issues that are connected” (like antifa?) should be censored? <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">How about debate without censorship, instead?</div><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 30, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Carl
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<div class="">Discussing issues in relation to “all is connected” is one thing, I give you credit for that, then continuously criticizing and attempting to discourage, those who take action on issues that are connected, is another. You do both.</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 30, 2018, at 06:47, Estabrook, Carl G <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" class="">galliher@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="">I have not in fact “focussed only on war” - but instead frequently insisted on the ingenuous SDS maxim, “Everything is connected!” - e.g., economics, identity politics, and the source of the present abortion contretemps - the ending of human
lives. We’ve often said, “Our political views are that we’re against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." (Those who defend abortion contend that abortion doesn’t kill people.)</div>
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<div class="">Obviously I haven’t hesitated to “take up other issues ... in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I, the treatment of immigrants, ‘Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,’ Democrats, identity politics, ‘Cost
of War,’” etc., as Karen charges. Other members of AWARE have been a bit reluctant to discuss these matters on our public TV program, ‘AWARE on the Air’ - originally designed as an open forum to publicize them locally.</div>
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<div class="">Of course it’s right that “Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern,” but the proper course on those issues - and even on opposing the war - is not immediately obvious and requires discussion. (E.g., Is antifa right?
Is it even antiwar?) - especially now, when there is a concentrated attempt by the US political establishment to distract the anti-war movement with false “other issues of concern” (notably, Is Trump Putin’s puppet? Did Russia “meddle” in the US election?)
There is a need to break through the disingenuous accounts - the worst I’ve ever seen - presented by MSM, the greatest propaganda system in history.</div>
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<div class="">AWARE from its beginning, almost two decades ago, was meant to be common ground for C-U to discuss questions about US war that were not perspicuous and to act locally on US war-making. It’s not clear to me how AWARE censors of email and social
media are pursuing the interests of the anti-war movement. </div>
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<div id="divRpF31869" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace [<a href="mailto:peace-bounces@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace-bounces@lists.chambana.net</a>]
on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace [<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 29, 2018 5:01 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:bjornsona@ameritech.net" class="">bjornsona@ameritech.net</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Karen Aram via Peace<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion"<br class="">
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<div class="">Sorry Anne, your statement :
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<div class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt;">"Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE,
not full scale giving in</span><font size="2" class="">”</font></div>
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is not Carl, he will not budge, focusing only on war, and criticizing those of us who do take up other issues. Every rally, or protest that has been done in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I , the treatment of immigrants,
“Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,” he has criticized because it’s not related to war, and its organized by Democrats with whom he will not unite in common cause, or because its identity politics. He did finally attend a “Cost of War, panel discussion,” but
wore me out attempting to convince him to do so.</div>
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<div class="">Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern, and he knows this well. I have been writing about this ad nauseum. You’ve missed a lot of conversations, being the newbie, the one new recruit to AWARE, along with James,
though we have lost many more. The only issue he aligns the war movement with is “abortion” comparing it to "killing children with bombs.” </div>
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<div class="">The dozens of people I have met in this town who were once active members of AWARE, left primarily for that reason. We have the same problem with the local Green Party as well. </div>
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<div class="">Whatever ones personal views maybe on the abortion issue, they have no place on the AWARE FB page.</div>
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<div class="">As to prayer, it can’t hurt, but to rely upon it only, well we have millions of people who had nothing else, and they have ended up dead. </div>
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<div class="">I will participate in no further discussion on this topic, or on the Peace List .</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 29, 2018, at 09:26, bjornsona--- via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving
in, is what we need. I have a friend who thinks this one issue has been a major cause of many of our woes because so many potential activists put blinders on to the rest of the atrocities happening in the world. Joining up is the only way we will get anywhere.
I appreciate ANSWER, Karen.</div>
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<div dir="auto" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt;"> If prayer and cohesion do not work, unfortunately it looks like bigger wars, starvation, earthquakes might do it. See USGS for increasing size and depth of earthquakes in Ring of Fire - moving
to 6.5s (yet not corresponding release of pressure</span><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt;"> along U. S. Pacific coast). See web site SOTT predicting large crop yield losses across the globe from this year and difficult growth next year from volcanic
ash covering sun and unpredictable weather. Hate to be gloomy..being realistic while MSM distracts. </span></div>
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<div dir="auto" class=""><i class="">Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</i></div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">------ Original message------</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Karen Aram via Peace</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:09 AM</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>peace;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b>[Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion"</div>
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Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group,
I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate.</p>
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<div class="">Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with
their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. </div>
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<div class="">Please see:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R</a>.</div>
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Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below:</p>
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"Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic
control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war.</p><p class="" style="margin: 6px 0px; color: rgb(29, 33, 41); orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
Abortion is the leading<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; font-family: inherit;"> cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re
“against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on."</span></p>
<div class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(29, 33, 41); orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 6px; font-family: inherit;">But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial
and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges.</p><p class="" style="margin: 6px 0px; font-family: inherit;">Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all,
child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.”</p>
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