<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’m sorry to continue this discussion but it needs to be said. Discussing the in’s and outs of who and what is fine, on the AOTA tv/U-tube program, in fact it’s extremely important to enlighten those who assume it’s the guy in the WH. It was AOTA and you as well as recommended books, from whom I became aware of those responsible for US wars of imperialism, as we would focus on cause, sources of information, cui bono and always digging beneath the surface.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Flyers for demonstrations should deal with war, the wars being conducted by our government. All the data and accusations related to who did what and when, pitting one administration against another is unnecessary and creates a flyer people likely won’t read. If they did we would have more people out there supporting us when demonstrating.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suggest a flyer truly dedicated to anti-war, be non partisan. There is absolutely no reason to refer to Trump, his impeachment, Obama or any other President or our domestic politics. Other well known national anti-war groups such as ANSWER, or the UNAC, etc. generally don’t talk about impeachment or focus on the front men in the WH, giving the impression if we only had the right person in the WH all would change. They focus on the wars of the USG, that the American people are being held responsible for committing if we don’t rise up and oppose them, byway of mass action. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As stated using articles such as that by Chris Hedges to prove your point, that Trump is just a symptom not the disease as in weekly articles, interviews, discussions or FB is fine and important. On flyers attempting to engage people in conversation or action, in a divided nation, serves no purpose and continues the “distract and divide” strategy being implemented by the Deep, or as Brian Becker of ANSWER refers to it, Perpetual State.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please see below my response to Carl’s comments defending his position and that of Trump when he says people involved with AWARE don’t support Trump, as if I was accusing AWARE members, of supporting Trump when I critiqued the original flyer on the AWARE FB page:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="" style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(28, 30, 33); font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, system-ui, '.SFNSText-Regular', sans-serif; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class=""><div class="" style="font-family: inherit;"><div aria-label="Comment reply" role="article" class="_4efk clearfix _8m-h _4eek" data-ft="{"tn":"R","ct":"Y29tbWVudDoxMDE1NzgwNDIxODUwMTMwNl8xMDE1NzgxMTM2MDEyNjMwNg=="}" data-testid="UFI2Comment/root_depth_1" direction="left" style="zoom: 1; padding: 4px 12px 4px 8px; line-height: 16px; position: relative; font-family: inherit;"><div class="_ohe lfloat" style="font-size: 13px; float: left; font-family: inherit;"><a aria-hidden="true" class=" _3mf5 _3mg1" tabindex="-1" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/user.php?id=1509333372" href="https://www.facebook.com/karen.aram.1" style="color: rgb(56, 88, 152); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; display: block; margin-right: 6px; position: relative; margin-top: 7px; font-family: inherit;"><img alt="Karen Aram" class="_3me- _3mf2 img" src="https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p48x48/64802318_10218857280212257_376314464561004544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=fMvPb3izKpcAQnMvYx5aeWGyJR8fDT85TK1eaVuoxMCoP-hCYMecHeW9A&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=b7919a31eba716f80068a1ff030910c0&oe=5E87E0E8" style="border: 0px; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; display: block; overflow: hidden; height: 20px; width: 20px;"></a></div><div class="" style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="_42ef" style="overflow: hidden; font-family: inherit;"><div class="" style="font-family: inherit;"><div class="_6c7i" style="max-width: calc(100% - 22px); overflow-wrap: break-word; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; font-family: inherit;"><div class="_680y" style="display: inline-flex; max-width: 100%; position: relative; vertical-align: middle; font-family: inherit;"><div class="_6cuy" style="flex: 1 1 auto; min-width: 0px; width: 378px; font-family: inherit;"><div class="" style="font-family: inherit;"><div class=" _6qw3" data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-testid="UFI2Comment/body" style="background-color: rgb(242, 243, 245); border-top-left-radius: 18px; border-top-right-radius: 18px; border-bottom-right-radius: 18px; border-bottom-left-radius: 18px; box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; line-height: 16px; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; overflow-wrap: break-word; position: relative; word-break: break-word; font-family: inherit;"><div class="_72vr" style="padding: 8px 10px; font-family: inherit;"><a class="_6qw4" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/user.php?id=1509333372&extragetparams={"directed_target_id": "305897426305"}" href="https://www.facebook.com/karen.aram.1" style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(56, 88, 152); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; font-weight: 600; font-family: inherit;">Karen Aram</a><font size="2" class=""> </font><span dir="ltr" class="" style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="_3l3x" style="font-family: inherit;">You’re quite right, no one associated with AWARE is interested in supporting Trump, other<font size="2" class=""> </font>than </span></span><span class="" style="font-family: inherit;">you. I'm sorry Carl, you can deny it but others with AWARE and on the Peace List have had the same complaint as I.<span class="" style="font-size: small;"> The</span> by Chris Hedges is a good one, going into detail, and clarifying the issues you mention, without defending Trump. Your revised flyer is much better than previous, mentioning our current wars under the Trump Administration. However, you still give Trump a pass with your "the Deep State, made him do it." I'm glad you're uncloaking the powers behind the throne, responsible for US foreign policy, which by extension affects US domestic policies, but just mentioning it as an excuse for Trump, is bypassing the issue. The same argument some members of Aware made for Obama, which you and I, at the time refused to accept. It's true the Deep State makes them do it, all of them and everyone who is elected to the WH, becomes a puppet for the Deep State. DS is defined as the Pentagon, CIA, State Dept., Think Tanks, as well as the CFR, and appointed advisors, or as Eisenhower warned, "the military industrial complex." They all know it, when they are candidates, and accept money from major corporations who owns them. Only Trump has the hubris to think he can do as he pleases. Trump is no anti- war President, but he does know the consequences of war with nuclear armed nations such as Russia, and N.Korea maybe good for the arms industry, but not for real estate or developers, or those businesses he represents. Vulnerable nations like Venezuela, Bolivia, Mexico, Nicaragua are a different story, and his sanctions on Iran are war.</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 3, 2019, at 18:49, C. G. Estabrook via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">[Flyer to be distributed at AWARE's regular monthly anti-war demonstration Saturday 7 December 2-4pm at the Susan B. Anthony Memorial Fountain, intersection of Main & Neil in Champaign]<br class="">=====================================================================================================<br class=""><b class="">“IMPEACH TRUMP!” is the U.S. political establishment’s way of distracting you from America’s war-making around the world<br class=""></b><br class=""><div class="">The U.S. media (owned by large corporations) continue to tell us how terrible President Trump is, but that is a way to avoid talking about how terrible U.S. government war-making is - most recently in Venezuela and Bolivia.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And in regard to killing people around the world, the Trump administration’s policy seems little different from that of the Obama administration - for all of President Trump’s assertions that he wants to end the Obama-Clinton wars.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">President Obama inherited two shameful wars from the Bush administration (in Afghanistan and Iraq): he increased the number to eight (attacking Libya, Pakistan, the Philippines, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen as well) and became the first U.S. president ever to be at war throughout two terms. Not even presidents Roosevelt (WWII), Wilson (WWI), or Lincoln (Civil War) did that.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As Barack Obama said in 2012, after ordering drone assassinations of American citizens, including minors (purposely), “Turns out I’m really good at killing people; didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine.”<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While “covering sin with smooth names,” Obama continued America’s longest-standing foreign policy - attempting to prevent the integration of Eurasia, for fear that it would interfere with the U.S. elite’s economic exploitation of the rest of the world - by American war provocations against Russia and China, from Ukraine to the South China Sea.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Trump, after criticizing Obama’s war-making, has largely continued it - in part at least because he is under pressure from the ‘deep state’ to maintain the traditional US foreign policy of retarding the economic development of Russia and China.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Since the end of WWII, the U.S. has killed more than 20 million people in wars (Korea, Vietnam, Latin America, Mideast, and elsewhere) designed to destroy challenges to the economic hegemony the U.S. obtained as the only major country largely undamaged by WWII. (Russia lost 27 million people in defeating Naziism; U.S. losses in WWII totaled about a half million people.)<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That is why today international polls show that the U.S. is the most feared government in the world - not China, Russia, Iran, or Israel. The rest of the world recognizes that the U.S. government remains what Martin Luther King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.”<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With other peace groups around the world, we call upon our president and government<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>(a) to close the thousand U.S. military bases on foreign soil (most encircling Russia and China),<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>(b) to bring all U.S. troops (and weapons) home, and<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>(c) to provide social supports - including free medical care, education, and a universal basic income - for Americans, who have been made poorer by generations of our government’s wars.<br class="">~~~<br class="">In Illinois, send your opinion to your local representatives in Congress--<br class="">~ Senator Dick Durbin: <<a href="https://www.durbin.senate.gov/contact/email" class="">https://www.durbin.senate.gov/contact/email</a>><br class="">~ Sen. Tammy Duckworth: <<a href="https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/content/contact-senator" class="">https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/content/contact-senator</a>><br class="">~ Representative Rodney Davis: <<a href="https://rodneydavis.house.gov/contact/" class="">https://rodneydavis.house.gov/contact/</a>><br class="">~~~<br class=""><b class="">This flyer is produced by members & friends of the ‘Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort’; see <AWARE of Champaign-Urbana Illinois> on Facebook.<br class="">The TV program ‘AWARE on the Air,’ a local discussion of war news, is on Urbana Public Television, Tuesdays at 10pm (& available on YouTube).<br class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><b class="">###</b></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">Peace mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net" class="">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a><br class="">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>