[Peace] [Peace-discuss] An exchange

[Robert Naiman]

A good question for U.S. peace advocates to ask themselves right now is:

"Am I standing next to Putin's bombing of civilians in Ukraine right now?"

If you're standing next to Putin's bombing of civilians in Ukraine right
now, why call yourself a peace advocate?

Why not just call yourself a Putin advocate?

If the shoe fits, wear it.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:08 AM karen aram via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Mort
>
> I couldn’t agree with you more. This has been my point, and you have said
> it so well. I’m pleased to see Colleen Rowley's statement supporting your
> views as well. It’s interesting  in that she a former CIA legal expert
> sounds very much like Noam Chomsky, on this very topic in warning what may
> come if the USG doesn’t stop expanding Nato.
>
> There are many of us taking this position, but unfortunately most people
> and some of the peace groups are focusing too much on simply “anti-war,
> stop the fighting.” Which is not going to solve the problem, when focusing
> on other nations, governments than their own. It provides a veneer of that
> which is not a simple, "russia is bad," that the USG and our corporate
> owned media promotes.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> On Mar 2, 2022, at 10:50 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
> You might be interested. I thought I would wade into this blast at Russia
> by these peace groups. My initial remarks were to Marcy at CODEPINK, a
> group I’ve usually supported.
>
> Mort
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out,
> No NATO Expansion*
> *Date: *March 2, 2022 at 5:05:56 PM CST
> *To: *Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com>, "rowleyclan at earthlink.net"
> <rowleyclan at earthlink.net>, "<wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>" <
> wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>
>
> Naive, and worse, in that the statement overlooks(?) and ignores the
> reason for this crisis in the first place. The US-NATO-Ukraine refusal to
> consider what Putin/Russia was reasonably demanding for strategic
> stability, its security. You don’t ask why there was such denial. And now
> we have a state of turmoil looking, as was the initial intention, to demean
> and demonize Russia.  Who will profit for this?
>
> On Mar 2, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Just to be clear, CODEPINK's principal positions are: Russian troops out
> of Ukraine, Ceasefire now, Negotiations without preconditions,
> No NATO Expansion, Neutrality for Ukraine, No weapons to Ukraine, only
> humanitarian support; No blanket sanctions that will hurt
> the Russian people as opposed to the oligarchs.
>
> I disagree with those who condemn peace groups for opposing the war in
> Ukraine, the full-scale Russian invasion and high-alert nuclear
> status. Putin's military aggression, not the peace movement's objection to
> war as a problem-solver, is what will empower NATO and the most
> warmongering elements of our government. One can be anti-imperialist
> without being pro-war.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 7:04 AM rowleyclan at earthlink.net <
> rowleyclan at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Exactly right, Morton! It's amazing how so much US-NATO imperialist
>> history of illegal wars of aggression and inciting of violent regime
>> changes in dozens of foreign countries (all to achieve their
>> well-publicized goal since WWII of achieving unipolar, full spectrum
>> dominance) is so quickly and fully erased in the minds of the various
>> "peace" groups here, making their response to the situation in Ukraine so
>> one-sided.  This morphing of liberal "peace" groups and lessening of
>> internal resistance to US-NATO's bloody trajectory (since the costs of
>> war upon Americans were made nearly invisible after Vietnam
>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/04/recipe-concocted-for-perpetual-war-is-a-bitter-one/>)
>> already became more obvious with Obama-Hillary's continuation of post 9-11
>> wars and bombing of Libya and Syria.
>>
>> But living in this imperial, exceptionalist and so effectively
>> propagandized U.S.-NATO bubble makes it understandably difficult for most,
>> even in the "peace movement" to remain fully empathetic with those
>> foreigners experiencing the actual costs of war and
>> objective/critical-thinking in their assessment of proportional blame for
>> the current bloodshed.  Unfortunately we see most "peace" groups here quite
>> seduced by Samantha Power type "humanitarian imperialism," subsequently
>> engaging more to protest the "enemy" Russia than to protest their own
>> government's greater responsibility.  Obviously it takes two to tango so
>> it's true both sides bear some (although not equal) responsibility in
>> launching this war.  But the task for Americans should be to protest our
>> own government's actions instead of demonizing/protesting Russia and
>> siding, even somewhat siding, with U.S.-NATO's actions and continued war
>> propaganda.
>>
>>   So while it IS fine and good for the Russian people to protest their
>> own government's actions (and same for Ukrainians to protest their own
>> government), it should be the same for Americans and Europeans, to protest
>> their own governments' involvement.  Americans who protest (the "enemy")
>> Russia are just IMHO aiding and abetting U.S.-NATO's continued militarism
>> and war plans, which almost always entail "leading from behind" by arming
>> proxy forces, in this case using/exploiting poor Ukrainians.
>>
>> Coleen Rowley
>>
>>
>> "Power is always dangerous. Power attracts the worst and corrupts the
>> best." --Edward Abbey
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Mar 1, 2022 11:20 PM
>> To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>, <
>> wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com> <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No
>> NATO Expansion
>>
>>
>> Marcy,
>>  I consider the current conflict as a continuation of US determination to
>> remain a unipolar hegemon, and Russia (and China, Cuba, Venezuela,…) is one
>> of the few powerful nations to oppose it.  Russia is therefore considered
>> to be an enemy of the US, and thus all is acceptable to undermine it. A
>> similar logic applies for China. NATO is an instrument of this US policy,
>> and Ukraine is a useful agent to further US aims.
>>
>> We all know that the US and NATO have violated international rules
>> against aggressive wars multiple times,  aggressions against Iraq, Libya,
>> and Afghanistan, not to mention Yugoslavia, Syria and Palestine. Now that
>> Russia has struck back, we have this chorus of condemnation.
>>
>> What is really at stake is whether the US can continue its imperial
>> campaigns unhindered. Russia presents a major hindrance.
>>
>> Yes, it is horrible that civilians are caught in the middle of this
>> struggle, but the fundmental reasons for the struggle are geopolitical.  To
>> have a stable world politically, the vital security  interests of both
>> sides must be respected. This has not been done, despite claims that there
>> always exist nonviolent and  just solutions. In some sense, as Putin has
>> claimed,  the attack on Ukraine is defensive. He has come to understand
>>  the US determination to subdue Russia, and he is trying to negate it,  to
>> deal with it.  “He" represents Russian interests. He may fail, but I
>> sympathize with his quandary, just as I sympathize with those trapped in
>> the middle of the conflict. Most people want peace, but not all, including
>> the US administration and NATO which is delighted to have Ukrainians
>> advance its ends.
>>
>>  I’m outraged by US policies.  The resistance by Russia to US/NATO
>> depredations are mostly welcome, and I regret what many on the left are
>> doing by their harsh condemnations of Russia. The ubiquity of
>> these condemnations by peace groups serves to strengthen and mitigate the
>> imperial acts of the US/NATO complex. This, despite supposedly balanced
>> criticisms of US/NATO policies by some of these groups.
>>
>> —mkb
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 7:30 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Morton, while there's no denying that NATO and the US have played a
>> detrimental role in securing world peace & in encircling Russia and
>> going back on promises, etc., the bottom line is none of that excuses the
>> Russian invasion of Ukraine---war, as we say, is not the answer. As for
>> the mention of Chernoybl, it must not be lost on any of us that there are
>> 15 nuclear reactors in Ukraine, all of which pose a risk in normal times,
>> let alone during a war when weapons, even if not intended, can hit a
>> reactor to contaminate land and water. Putin's decision to issue veiled
>> threats
>> to launch nuclear weapons against NATO members and place his nuclear
>> arsenal on high alert is way out of bounds and underscores the importance
>> of nuclear abolition. Marcy
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is wrong with this statement is that it strongly condemns Russia,
>>> but only criticizes US/NATO, and too late in the statement at that.
>>>
>>>  NATO/US/Ukraine refused to consider the so-called red lines that Russia
>>> warned should not be crossed. It disregards the Russian point of view. It
>>> does not consider what the US would do if analogous threats were evident at
>>> US borders.  Russia asserted in writing what it considered *necessary
>>> conditions* for its security, conditions ignored by NATO/US. Russia
>>> could back off no further. On a related issue Ukraine/US/NATO talked about
>>> the Minsk accords but in fact ignored those accords.   Negotiations
>>> went nowhere.
>>>
>>> So who is reponsible for what has now occurred? You have succumbed to a
>>> bandwagon of condemnation.
>>>
>>> Moreover, alarmist and ignorant comments about the Chernobyl reactor are
>>> ill considered; Russian forces have been very much aware that its safety
>>> should be ensured.  On the other hand, the nuclear issue should be front
>>> and center on everybody’s mind.
>>>
>>> As for the rest, you make cogent points. But on the whole the statement
>>> is disappointing.   Meanwhile, more weaponry, troops are flooding into the
>>> region and sanctions applied so as to  weaken Russia, actions consistent
>>> with prior statements on various occasions that Russia (and China) are US
>>>  enemies.
>>>
>>> Very dangerous.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo__;!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR5eKNuD9g$>
>>>
>>> CODEPINK Says Stop the War in Ukraine: Russian Troops Out, No NATO
>>> Expansion
>>>
>>>
>>> CODEPINK strongly condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, where over
>>> 350,000 civilians have fled the country in fear of explosive weapons and
>>> missile attacks, while remaining residents from eastern to western Ukraine
>>> seek refuge in underground subways and bomb shelters. As an international
>>> peace organization, we call for an immediate ceasefire, negotiations
>>> without preconditions, withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, an end to
>>> NATO expansion and a return to the negotiating table to address the
>>> security interests of all stakeholders. We stand in solidarity with the
>>> Ukrainian people under vicious attack and with the thousands of courageous
>>> Russian anti-war activists risking arrest and imprisonment to protest in
>>> the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
>>>
>>> There is no military solution to the conflict over Ukraine, a country
>>> caught in the crossfire between the United States and Russia, the world’s
>>> two most heavily armed nuclear nations. While we denounce Putin’s
>>> reckless veiled threat to launch nuclear weapons against NATO countries, we
>>> also recognize the United States government is culpable in the
>>> proliferation and deployment of nuclear weapons, and must reverse course on
>>> its decision to pursue nuclear rearmament and instead advance verifiable
>>> agreements for global nuclear disarmament.
>>>
>>> In condemning Putin’s invasion of a sovereign country, the shelling of a
>>> Ukrainian hospital, the tanks closing in on Kyiv, we understand the U.S.
>>> has played a major role in exacerbating this conflict, facilitating a 2014
>>> coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and breaking
>>> promises not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, where offensive missiles
>>> in Romania and Poland could reach Russia in minutes.
>>>
>>> Though some will argue NATO is a defensive alliance of 30 countries, we
>>> view NATO as a threat to world peace with its military encirclement of
>>> Russia and support for U.S. military aggression in Kosovo, Afghanistan,
>>> Iraq and Libya, where an estimated million died under a rain of bombs and
>>> millions more were displaced. NATO’s aggressive stance on China, another
>>> nuclear-armed nation, also threatens world peace and efforts to unite in
>>> the face of existential climate catastrophe.
>>>
>>> In advance of the NATO summit in June, CODEPINK calls for an
>>> international security agreement to protect the interests of all Europeans
>>> to remain free from war and occupation. Such an agreement should have been
>>> forged after the fall of the Soviet Union and dissolution of the Warsaw
>>> Pact; instead the U.S. and NATO sought further militarization in a
>>> continuance of the Cold War that spawned multiple hot wars, from Korea to
>>> Vietnam.
>>>
>>> To prevent further fighting in Ukraine, to stop the loss of life,
>>> bloodshed and grave environmental degradation from the bombing of munitions
>>> plants, let us return to the 2015 Minsk II agreement that established a
>>> blueprint for peace and an end to the civil war rocking eastern Ukraine.
>>> Ukraine should be a neutral country; its incorporation into NATO should be
>>> off the table as a starting point for diplomacy.
>>>
>>> During this perilous time, when further military escalation could
>>> trigger a Chernobyl radioactive meltdown or push us to the brink of nuclear
>>> annihilation, we urge President Biden and Congress to stop the flow of
>>> weapons to Ukraine, offer humanitarian assistance and safe refuge instead,
>>> renew lapsed arms control treaties (Anti-Ballistic Missile, Intermediate
>>> Range Nuclear Forces, Open Skies) the U.S. abandoned with Russia, and
>>> reject the imposition of massive sanctions that will harm the Russian
>>> people who, like us, want peace and security.
>>>
>>> Blanket sanctions on the entire Russian economy could spread economic
>>> and environmental hardship to Europe and potentially the global community
>>> with energy price hikes that may reduce energy consumption in the short
>>> term but prompt more oil drilling and lethal burning of fossil fuels in the
>>> long term.
>>>
>>> In solidarity with anti-war protesters in Russia and across Europe, we
>>> call on the world’s peace-loving people, including conscripted front-line
>>> soldiers, to join us in a massive unified response to say:
>>>
>>> No to War in Ukraine; Yes to Negotiations and Peace.
>>>
>>> --
>>> This is a listserve to discuss the building of a global nonviolent
>>> movement to end war and establish a just and sustainable peace.
>>>
>>> Participants on this list must be respectful toward each other, not
>>> advocate violence, and not promote electoral candidates.
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "WBW discussion" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to wbw-discussion+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/CAHKBExqpfrW7XDAsAqM0CWmUF0FR1Pz595NTDqGycZmhCv751w%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/CAHKBExqpfrW7XDAsAqM0CWmUF0FR1Pz595NTDqGycZmhCv751w*40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR4iX9Doxg$>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> This is a listserve to discuss the building of a global nonviolent
>> movement to end war and establish a just and sustainable peace.
>>
>> Participants on this list must be respectful toward each other, not
>> advocate violence, and not promote electoral candidates.
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "WBW discussion" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to wbw-discussion+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/9A0A1E79-B31C-40B0-9F5A-1AB41464EAF0%40gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/9A0A1E79-B31C-40B0-9F5A-1AB41464EAF0%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out,
> No NATO Expansion*
> *Date: *March 2, 2022 at 5:05:56 PM CST
> *To: *Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com>, "rowleyclan at earthlink.net"
> <rowleyclan at earthlink.net>, "<wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>" <
> wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>
>
> Naive, and worse, in that the statement overlooks(?) and ignores the
> reason for this crisis in the first place. The US-NATO-Ukraine refusal to
> consider what Putin/Russia was reasonably demanding for strategic
> stability, its security. You don’t ask why there was such denial. And now
> we have a state of turmoil looking, as was the initial intention, to demean
> and demonize Russia.  Who will profit for this?
>
> On Mar 2, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Just to be clear, CODEPINK's principal positions are: Russian troops out
> of Ukraine, Ceasefire now, Negotiations without preconditions,
> No NATO Expansion, Neutrality for Ukraine, No weapons to Ukraine, only
> humanitarian support; No blanket sanctions that will hurt
> the Russian people as opposed to the oligarchs.
>
> I disagree with those who condemn peace groups for opposing the war in
> Ukraine, the full-scale Russian invasion and high-alert nuclear
> status. Putin's military aggression, not the peace movement's objection to
> war as a problem-solver, is what will empower NATO and the most
> warmongering elements of our government. One can be anti-imperialist
> without being pro-war.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 7:04 AM rowleyclan at earthlink.net <
> rowleyclan at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Exactly right, Morton! It's amazing how so much US-NATO imperialist
>> history of illegal wars of aggression and inciting of violent regime
>> changes in dozens of foreign countries (all to achieve their
>> well-publicized goal since WWII of achieving unipolar, full spectrum
>> dominance) is so quickly and fully erased in the minds of the various
>> "peace" groups here, making their response to the situation in Ukraine so
>> one-sided.  This morphing of liberal "peace" groups and lessening of
>> internal resistance to US-NATO's bloody trajectory (since the costs of
>> war upon Americans were made nearly invisible after Vietnam
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/04/recipe-concocted-for-perpetual-war-is-a-bitter-one/__;!!DZ3fjg!rqGCLR3hEZ8fxEXrec0z3FsREAPmaDf6bYSm2a5TPSU2awY4CY0yJ-zE7_xkvvxHhw$>)
>> already became more obvious with Obama-Hillary's continuation of post 9-11
>> wars and bombing of Libya and Syria.
>>
>> But living in this imperial, exceptionalist and so effectively
>> propagandized U.S.-NATO bubble makes it understandably difficult for most,
>> even in the "peace movement" to remain fully empathetic with those
>> foreigners experiencing the actual costs of war and
>> objective/critical-thinking in their assessment of proportional blame for
>> the current bloodshed.  Unfortunately we see most "peace" groups here quite
>> seduced by Samantha Power type "humanitarian imperialism," subsequently
>> engaging more to protest the "enemy" Russia than to protest their own
>> government's greater responsibility.  Obviously it takes two to tango so
>> it's true both sides bear some (although not equal) responsibility in
>> launching this war.  But the task for Americans should be to protest our
>> own government's actions instead of demonizing/protesting Russia and
>> siding, even somewhat siding, with U.S.-NATO's actions and continued war
>> propaganda.
>>
>>   So while it IS fine and good for the Russian people to protest their
>> own government's actions (and same for Ukrainians to protest their own
>> government), it should be the same for Americans and Europeans, to protest
>> their own governments' involvement.  Americans who protest (the "enemy")
>> Russia are just IMHO aiding and abetting U.S.-NATO's continued militarism
>> and war plans, which almost always entail "leading from behind" by arming
>> proxy forces, in this case using/exploiting poor Ukrainians.
>>
>> Coleen Rowley
>>
>>
>> "Power is always dangerous. Power attracts the worst and corrupts the
>> best." --Edward Abbey
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Mar 1, 2022 11:20 PM
>> To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>, <
>> wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com> <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No
>> NATO Expansion
>>
>>
>> Marcy,
>>  I consider the current conflict as a continuation of US determination to
>> remain a unipolar hegemon, and Russia (and China, Cuba, Venezuela,…) is one
>> of the few powerful nations to oppose it.  Russia is therefore considered
>> to be an enemy of the US, and thus all is acceptable to undermine it. A
>> similar logic applies for China. NATO is an instrument of this US policy,
>> and Ukraine is a useful agent to further US aims.
>>
>> We all know that the US and NATO have violated international rules
>> against aggressive wars multiple times,  aggressions against Iraq, Libya,
>> and Afghanistan, not to mention Yugoslavia, Syria and Palestine. Now that
>> Russia has struck back, we have this chorus of condemnation.
>>
>> What is really at stake is whether the US can continue its imperial
>> campaigns unhindered. Russia presents a major hindrance.
>>
>> Yes, it is horrible that civilians are caught in the middle of this
>> struggle, but the fundmental reasons for the struggle are geopolitical.  To
>> have a stable world politically, the vital security  interests of both
>> sides must be respected. This has not been done, despite claims that there
>> always exist nonviolent and  just solutions. In some sense, as Putin has
>> claimed,  the attack on Ukraine is defensive. He has come to understand
>>  the US determination to subdue Russia, and he is trying to negate it,  to
>> deal with it.  “He" represents Russian interests. He may fail, but I
>> sympathize with his quandary, just as I sympathize with those trapped in
>> the middle of the conflict. Most people want peace, but not all, including
>> the US administration and NATO which is delighted to have Ukrainians
>> advance its ends.
>>
>>  I’m outraged by US policies.  The resistance by Russia to US/NATO
>> depredations are mostly welcome, and I regret what many on the left are
>> doing by their harsh condemnations of Russia. The ubiquity of
>> these condemnations by peace groups serves to strengthen and mitigate the
>> imperial acts of the US/NATO complex. This, despite supposedly balanced
>> criticisms of US/NATO policies by some of these groups.
>>
>> —mkb
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 7:30 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Morton, while there's no denying that NATO and the US have played a
>> detrimental role in securing world peace & in encircling Russia and
>> going back on promises, etc., the bottom line is none of that excuses the
>> Russian invasion of Ukraine---war, as we say, is not the answer. As for
>> the mention of Chernoybl, it must not be lost on any of us that there are
>> 15 nuclear reactors in Ukraine, all of which pose a risk in normal times,
>> let alone during a war when weapons, even if not intended, can hit a
>> reactor to contaminate land and water. Putin's decision to issue veiled
>> threats
>> to launch nuclear weapons against NATO members and place his nuclear
>> arsenal on high alert is way out of bounds and underscores the importance
>> of nuclear abolition. Marcy
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is wrong with this statement is that it strongly condemns Russia,
>>> but only criticizes US/NATO, and too late in the statement at that.
>>>
>>>  NATO/US/Ukraine refused to consider the so-called red lines that Russia
>>> warned should not be crossed. It disregards the Russian point of view. It
>>> does not consider what the US would do if analogous threats were evident at
>>> US borders.  Russia asserted in writing what it considered *necessary
>>> conditions* for its security, conditions ignored by NATO/US. Russia
>>> could back off no further. On a related issue Ukraine/US/NATO talked about
>>> the Minsk accords but in fact ignored those accords.   Negotiations
>>> went nowhere.
>>>
>>> So who is reponsible for what has now occurred? You have succumbed to a
>>> bandwagon of condemnation.
>>>
>>> Moreover, alarmist and ignorant comments about the Chernobyl reactor are
>>> ill considered; Russian forces have been very much aware that its safety
>>> should be ensured.  On the other hand, the nuclear issue should be front
>>> and center on everybody’s mind.
>>>
>>> As for the rest, you make cogent points. But on the whole the statement
>>> is disappointing.   Meanwhile, more weaponry, troops are flooding into the
>>> region and sanctions applied so as to  weaken Russia, actions consistent
>>> with prior statements on various occasions that Russia (and China) are US
>>>  enemies.
>>>
>>> Very dangerous.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo__;!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR5eKNuD9g$>
>>>
>>> CODEPINK Says Stop the War in Ukraine: Russian Troops Out, No NATO
>>> Expansion
>>>
>>>
>>> CODEPINK strongly condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, where over
>>> 350,000 civilians have fled the country in fear of explosive weapons and
>>> missile attacks, while remaining residents from eastern to western Ukraine
>>> seek refuge in underground subways and bomb shelters. As an international
>>> peace organization, we call for an immediate ceasefire, negotiations
>>> without preconditions, withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, an end to
>>> NATO expansion and a return to the negotiating table to address the
>>> security interests of all stakeholders. We stand in solidarity with the
>>> Ukrainian people under vicious attack and with the thousands of courageous
>>> Russian anti-war activists risking arrest and imprisonment to protest in
>>> the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
>>>
>>> There is no military solution to the conflict over Ukraine, a country
>>> caught in the crossfire between the United States and Russia, the world’s
>>> two most heavily armed nuclear nations. While we denounce Putin’s
>>> reckless veiled threat to launch nuclear weapons against NATO countries, we
>>> also recognize the United States government is culpable in the
>>> proliferation and deployment of nuclear weapons, and must reverse course on
>>> its decision to pursue nuclear rearmament and instead advance verifiable
>>> agreements for global nuclear disarmament.
>>>
>>> In condemning Putin’s invasion of a sovereign country, the shelling of a
>>> Ukrainian hospital, the tanks closing in on Kyiv, we understand the U.S.
>>> has played a major role in exacerbating this conflict, facilitating a 2014
>>> coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and breaking
>>> promises not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, where offensive missiles
>>> in Romania and Poland could reach Russia in minutes.
>>>
>>> Though some will argue NATO is a defensive alliance of 30 countries, we
>>> view NATO as a threat to world peace with its military encirclement of
>>> Russia and support for U.S. military aggression in Kosovo, Afghanistan,
>>> Iraq and Libya, where an estimated million died under a rain of bombs and
>>> millions more were displaced. NATO’s aggressive stance on China, another
>>> nuclear-armed nation, also threatens world peace and efforts to unite in
>>> the face of existential climate catastrophe.
>>>
>>> In advance of the NATO summit in June, CODEPINK calls for an
>>> international security agreement to protect the interests of all Europeans
>>> to remain free from war and occupation. Such an agreement should have been
>>> forged after the fall of the Soviet Union and dissolution of the Warsaw
>>> Pact; instead the U.S. and NATO sought further militarization in a
>>> continuance of the Cold War that spawned multiple hot wars, from Korea to
>>> Vietnam.
>>>
>>> To prevent further fighting in Ukraine, to stop the loss of life,
>>> bloodshed and grave environmental degradation from the bombing of munitions
>>> plants, let us return to the 2015 Minsk II agreement that established a
>>> blueprint for peace and an end to the civil war rocking eastern Ukraine.
>>> Ukraine should be a neutral country; its incorporation into NATO should be
>>> off the table as a starting point for diplomacy.
>>>
>>> During this perilous time, when further military escalation could
>>> trigger a Chernobyl radioactive meltdown or push us to the brink of nuclear
>>> annihilation, we urge President Biden and Congress to stop the flow of
>>> weapons to Ukraine, offer humanitarian assistance and safe refuge instead,
>>> renew lapsed arms control treaties (Anti-Ballistic Missile, Intermediate
>>> Range Nuclear Forces, Open Skies) the U.S. abandoned with Russia, and
>>> reject the imposition of massive sanctions that will harm the Russian
>>> people who, like us, want peace and security.
>>>
>>> Blanket sanctions on the entire Russian economy could spread economic
>>> and environmental hardship to Europe and potentially the global community
>>> with energy price hikes that may reduce energy consumption in the short
>>> term but prompt more oil drilling and lethal burning of fossil fuels in the
>>> long term.
>>>
>>> In solidarity with anti-war protesters in Russia and across Europe, we
>>> call on the world’s peace-loving people, including conscripted front-line
>>> soldiers, to join us in a massive unified response to say:
>>>
>>> No to War in Ukraine; Yes to Negotiations and Peace.
>>>
>>> --
>>> This is a listserve to discuss the building of a global nonviolent
>>> movement to end war and establish a just and sustainable peace.
>>>
>>> Participants on this list must be respectful toward each other, not
>>> advocate violence, and not promote electoral candidates.
>>> ---
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/CAHKBExqpfrW7XDAsAqM0CWmUF0FR1Pz595NTDqGycZmhCv751w%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/CAHKBExqpfrW7XDAsAqM0CWmUF0FR1Pz595NTDqGycZmhCv751w*40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR4iX9Doxg$>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> This is a listserve to discuss the building of a global nonviolent
>> movement to end war and establish a just and sustainable peace.
>>
>> Participants on this list must be respectful toward each other, not
>> advocate violence, and not promote electoral candidates.
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "WBW discussion" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to wbw-discussion+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/9A0A1E79-B31C-40B0-9F5A-1AB41464EAF0%40gmail.com
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/9A0A1E79-B31C-40B0-9F5A-1AB41464EAF0*40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!DZ3fjg!rqGCLR3hEZ8fxEXrec0z3FsREAPmaDf6bYSm2a5TPSU2awY4CY0yJ-zE7_zs7YLIWg$>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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