<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Comments:<div><br></div><div>Poverty is a major cause of unpleasantness and criminal behavior, but to rid society of poverty would not solve all problems of ciminality.</div><div><br></div><div>The Urbana city council was informed that some people were alarmed/frightened by behaviors they encountered, and responded with an ordinance. I do not believe that they conflated panhandling with violent crime or race. Whether the "public" believes that is arguable. </div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately, many opponents of the ordinance have conflated all those who panhandle as innocents subject to racial and economic persecution. They do not believe that even assuming certain kinds of panhandling is simply a nuisance it is a significant problem to those feeling threatened. They reject the notion that such a problem can have any regulatory solution. </div><div><br></div><div>There is poverty and there is criminality. Solutions must be sought for both, not overlooked for either. We are not at the stage where this society is about to tackle the problems of poverty and the underclass. Yet, criminality still needs to be addressed.</div><div><br></div><div>Whether "aggressive panhandling" should be considered criminal, or simply as mischievous or harmlessly unpleasant, is something for society to determine. That is what I feel is at issue here.</div><div><br></div><div>Finally, I don't believe that the ordinance at hand can be effectively enforced (Will police be permanently stationed at hotspots of panhandling?), and it is therefore largely ineffective, hence useless, except possibly as a dissuasive element. How dissuasive will it be? For that we need data. </div><div><br></div><div>--mkb</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 23, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Belden Fields wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Belden Fields <<a href="mailto:a-fields@illinois.edu">a-fields@illinois.edu</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">July 23, 2011 12:02:30 PM CDT</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">CUCPJ <<a href="mailto:discuss@communitycourtwatch.org">discuss@communitycourtwatch.org</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Cc: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Esther Patt <<a href="mailto:estherpatt@hotmail.com">estherpatt@hotmail.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>Fwd: "Panhandling"</b></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Belden Fields <<a href="mailto:a-fields@illinois.edu">a-fields@illinois.edu</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">July 23, 2011 12:01:59 PM CDT</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a href="mailto:casmyth@city.urbana.il.us">casmyth@city.urbana.il.us</a>, Brandon Bowersox <<a href="mailto:brandonbowersox@gmail.com">brandonbowersox@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:hdstevenson@city.urbana.il.us">hdstevenson@city.urbana.il.us</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Cc: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Eric Jakobsson <<a href="mailto:councileric@gmail.com">councileric@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:dproberts@city.urbana.il.us">dproberts@city.urbana.il.us</a>, <a href="mailto:dwmarlin@city.urbana.il.us">dwmarlin@city.urbana.il.us</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>"Panhandling"</b></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Dear Council Members,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">As per my comments before the Committee of the Whole about the way the word "panhandling" had been conflated with violent crime and racialized in the public mind by the initial proposed ordinance and the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>way it was discussed in the press, I share the concern that councilperson Robert Lewis has with even the revised and improved ordinance.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">What I propose is that the ordinance be named an ordinance concerning Solicitation of Money From Strangers on the Public Way.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Then, the paragraph beginning with the words "Panhandling means...", under Sec. 15-68, would be shortened.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The first sentence would begin: "Such proscribed behavior does not include....."</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If we are really focused on behavior, then even Santa Clause ringing a bell for donations or a person selling poppies for disabled vets should not engage in aggressive behavior.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The ordinance would thus really address behavior in a general way and not a stigmatized subset of people.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks for y;our attention.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Belden Fields</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Peace mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a><br>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>